Upward mounted TPR valve

[Betsy Callahan]

I am looking at buying a condo and the home inspector noted the TPR valve is mounted to discharge upward and it is a safety hazard. Any idea what is involved in fixing this? Do I have to buy a whole new water heater? It is in a small space under the sink in the kitchen. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

BC

 

[Reach4]

TPR valve is mounted to discharge upward

Depends on how I interpret your statement.

To change the side-mounted TPR to point down may be just giving it another 1/2 turn. If a big wrench cannot turn it, you can get a new TPR for under $2o, and installing it should be a pretty minimum job for a plumber, I would think.

If the inspector means that the discharge pipe routing is uphill, that would require routing all downhill under most codes.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

Under cabinet water heaters are truly a Pain to work with. Hopefully yours was installed with some means of removing it. Is it on an exterior wall? If so, the easiest way may be to simply drill a new hole to the outside and install a new drain pipe that works by gravity. If its on an upper floor, then perhaps the easiest way would be to open the wall where the discharge pipe goes and lower the point of connection. As long as it goes downward somewhere within the reach of the cabinetry, the repair would be hidden.

 

[Sylvan]

Under cabinet water heaters are truly a Pain to work with. Hopefully yours was installed with some means of removing it. Is it on an exterior wall? If so, the easiest way may be to simply drill a new hole to the outside and install a new drain pipe that works by gravity. If its on an upper floor, then perhaps the easiest way would be to open the wall where the discharge pipe goes and lower the point of connection. As long as it goes downward somewhere within the reach of the cabinetry, the repair would be hidden.

I was called in as an expert witness as some handyman installed an electric heater under a sink and placed the TP discharge though an outside wall and someone dog was scalded

This was considered contrary to code and good plumbing practices

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

I was called in as an expert witness as some handyman installed an electric heater under a sink and placed the TP discharge though an outside wall and someone dog was scalded

This was considered contrary to code and good plumbing practices

*Out an outside wall and to within 6" of the ground* where the UPC code likes it... Place a warning sign. "Woof, woof"

 

[Jeff H Young]

*Out an outside wall and to within 6" of the ground* where the UPC code likes it... "Woof, woof"

We go a minmum 6 inches off ground up to 24 high

 

[Jadnashua]

Without a picture or more information, it's nearly impossible to say what it would take to resolve this issue...

While the discharge can go horizontal, it should not go up, and must end up going down.

 

[Sylvan]

*Out an outside wall and to within 6" of the ground* where the UPC code likes it... Place a warning sign. "Woof, woof"

I wonder if the UPC takes snow into account? 6" seems low

Also having a relief, safety or TP valve where the discharge is unnoticed people will not know of a problem which can lead to a larger problem

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

I wonder if the UPC takes snow into account? 6" seems low

Also having a relief, safety or TP valve where the discharge is unnoticed people will not know of a problem which can lead to a larger problem

UPC is as Jeff mentions.. 24-6" And likely local ordinances that govern snow situations similar to roof vents.
I've found several T&P that were likely discharging for years unoticed. Same for roof drain overflows, they should daylight... maybe sewers should have some telltale device that indicates when they're backing up.. sounds expensive.

We have a nifty amendment:
(7) Discharge from a relief valve into a water heater pan shall be prohibited.
EXCEPTION:
Where no drainage was provided, replacement water heating equipment shall only be required to provide a drain pointing downward from the relief valve to extend between two (2) feet (610 mm) and six (6) inches (152 mm) from the floor. No additional floor drain need be provided.

We do mostly remodel work and always try to move the water heaters to the exterior wall or somewhere that the T&P discharge can be routed safely.. Most old seattle homes had their replacement gas water heaters installed in the center of the basement to take advantage of the chimney as their flue.

I just noticed that the discharge of our shop water heater is currently about 10ft up where the Tweakers broke off the copper pipe at the 2hole strap.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Tuttles is that amendment a Washington state, county, or city thing or UPC? this topic came up in IPC not long ago and their code allows dumping on floor in apt closet no pan required (if one doesn't exist before) . which I thought a Joke but it can be very difficult or a hardship to comply, but would expect an apartment building to not get much slack on this issue

 

[Sylvan]

"I've found several T&P that were likely discharging for years unoticed. Same for roof drain overflows, they should daylight... maybe sewers should have some telltale device that indicates when they're backing up.. sounds expensive."

How about these ideas

1- The T&P discharges through an air break into 2" x 1 " coupling and the 2" pipe goes to though the wall

This way if the BT&P does discharge or just seep it will be noticeable


2- An alarm goes off when a roof has over 4" of water on it.

Normally when I did my rood drain installations I requested the roofer to install a scupper box and outside leader where possible just incase a roof drain should become blocked from dead birds (from drinking cooling tower water)


https://www.controlbyweb.com/xw112/...67PGi_6823tGfanBPXdFOFuJfzOlot3hoCb7kQAvD_BwE

 

[Sylvan]

https://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/s-tieger-plumbing-bronx-county-2?select=pU8dyV8qX5xfU5meWTcPHA

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

Tuttles is that amendment a Washington state

Yes, its a washington state amendment. If we were only changing a water heater, I can see its use. But when we're remodelling we always take the opportunity to get the T&P out / safe. Even installing a 125# Pressure relief somewhere safe is better than nothing.

 

[Jeff H Young]

The intent is good but I don't agree with IPC that mere absence of a pan or a T and P to outside means you don't have to put one.
We upgraded 300 apt units with a earthquake strap and T and P to outside they were easy on an out side wall 2 x4 wood frame with dry wall inside stucco outside. a hand full of units needed a watts 210 gas shutoff and a (non temp) pressure relief valve placed elsewhere.
I think inspector should have some say on whether he sees hardship / major cost inconvenience to allow deviation

 

[Jadnashua]

I don't see much buy in to the WAGS valve. WAGS Valve It's a one-time use thing, which may be why people don't seem to care, but considering the amount of damage a WH discharge can cause, it seems like a good idea to me. No power, same concept as what inflates a life preserver used on aircraft...water melts a disk that is holding the valve open...it slams shut, and can also cut off the gas or electricity in addition to the water when water backs up in the pan. No pan, they make glue down dams that go around the WH to contain the water...once it gets to about 1/2" deep, the WAGS trips. No association with WAGS. Also comes with a warranty when installed according to the instructions for damages.

 

[Jeff H Young]

I don't see much buy in to the WAGS valve. WAGS Valve It's a one-time use thing, which may be why people don't seem to care, but considering the amount of damage a WH discharge can cause, it seems like a good idea to me. No power, same concept as what inflates a life preserver used on aircraft...water melts a disk that is holding the valve open...it slams shut, and can also cut off the gas or electricity in addition to the water when water backs up in the pan. No pan, they make glue down dams that go around the WH to contain the water...once it gets to about 1/2" deep, the WAGS trips. No association with WAGS. Also comes with a warranty when installed according to the instructions for damages.

So this wags valve is good to shut down water with a tank failure , thats a good thing! I sure dont understand IPC code not requiring any ptotection . and Washington gone a bit lax too it seems a drain pan and t and p to outside a reasonable code except on a hardship and even then some waiver or statement by owner willing to take responceability for damage hold no one liable and pay all damages to tenant belongings or injury. we dont want slumlords toget an exemption just because its been that way.
Garage floors are a little iffy I dont see a problem but not going to get past many inspectors here as far as Tand p drain , the drain pan only can go from platform to floor in garage

 

[hj]

Here, the discharge line almost ALWAYS has to discharge to the exterior of the building.

 

[Jadnashua]

Here, the discharge line almost ALWAYS has to discharge to the exterior of the building.

That's problematic if the WH is in the basement, and the discharge would have to go up to get to daylight! Admittedly, basements are rare in some parts of the country.

 

[Sylvan]

Here, the discharge line almost ALWAYS has to discharge to the exterior of the building.

I can just imagine NYC having the T&P discharging where thousands of people walk by.


This is an expert witness dream come true.

 

[Sylvan]

NYC is also doing this to have more rentable space BUT it will be one hell of a hot leak when it fails


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