Toto Toilet Disappointing, Now What?

[marybythesea]

Happily raised three children over 27 years using two 3.5 gallon Cadets on a rural septic system, without any toilet clogging issues. Our plumbing/septic system worked very well. When I was out of town, use of a strong cleaner marred the toilet bowl, so we replaced one Cadet with Toto Drake 1.6 gpf. A friend (on city water) warned me that his Drake often needed 2 flushes to prevent clogs, but I did not heed his warning.

From day one our Toto Drake has been inclined to clog. We have learned to use thin, cheap paper and flush twice - even though we are "toilet-users-light". When grandkids come, fighting paper clogs is a daily worry. The remaining Cadet worked beautifully, so served as the family bm toilet until a plumber took the tank outside for cleaning and broke it.

I am anguishing over a replacement. I want to believe all the claims about improved flushing, but our bad experience makes me wary. Have considered looking for a replacement Cadet 4083 tank, which may be hard to find. Have considered installing a new Cadet 3 and holding the handle down to enable 2.5 gallon flushing.

Is the new Cadet 3 the best model for holding the level down to increase flushing volume? Are there other ways, like modifying fill or flushing mechanisms so we can get more flush volume out of new toilets? Priorities: Prefer simple, low maintenance gravity system, DIY upkeep. Minerals in well water. Reliable flushing is #1 priority. Prefer classic design, low seat, round bowl. Options/advice appreciated!

 

[Reach4]

I am surprised too. I would wonder if there is not some clog that happened during the install. If you do pull that toilet, check its trapway for something stuck.

I would try filling a 5 gallon bucket, and pour it into the bowl as fast as you dare from as high as you dare. See if that clears things up.

If you extend the overflow tube on a non-canister flush 1.x gpm toilet, you can then either adjust the existing fill valve higher, or put in a new fill valve. You can then raise the flush GPM considerably.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[marybythesea]

I am surprised too. I would wonder if there is not some clog that happened during the install. If you do pull that toilet, check its trapway for something stuck.

I would try filling a 5 gallon bucket, and pour it into the bowl as fast as you dare from as high as you dare. See if that clears things up.

If you extend the overflow tube on a non-canister flush 1.x gpm toilet, you can then either adjust the existing fill valve higher, or put in a new fill valve. You can then raise the flush GPM considerably.

I trust Love's (and others) confidence in Toto's - I assumed that the poor performance was somehow related to "our system". Since the toilet was clog sensitive from day one, either it happened during install (as you suggest) or the configuration of our septic system is not compatible. I read on one post suggesting a long run to the drain field can affect flushing performance of some toilets. Will try the bucket test. If that does not work, we will live with the Toto, but try to increase the flushing volume as you suggest. I seem to recall reading that holding a toilets handle down longer works on A.S. but not Toto. Can you comment on that? Part of me leans towards just getting a used replacement tank - a hassle and expensive, but dread the idea of reliability issues with the second toilet. Thanks for your suggestions.

 

[Reach4]

I seem to recall reading that holding a toilets handle down longer works on A.S. but not Toto. Can you comment on that?

Holding the handle down works on Totos too.

There are also adjustable flappers.

 

[Jadnashua]

Three things to look at:
- if the wax seal was not centered properly (it works best to install it on the flange verses the toilet), it can block part of the outlet
- check the tank water level AND the level of the water in the bowl. If the refill hose came off of the clip and is not directing water into the bowl, you will not get a good flush, or, if the tank level is not proper, the bowl level won't be either. To check the bowl level, note the water height, slowly add water from a bucket (if you go too fast, it will flush) and see if it rises. If it does, you have an issue with the bowl fill.
- if the chain to the flapper is too loose, it will close too quickly. There should be a little slack, but not much. Too tight, and it may not let the flapper close every time and constantly run. Too loose, and it may get caught underneath causing the same problem...Like Goldilocks and the porridge ...it needs to be just right.

 

[WJcandee]

If you post a photo of the inside of the tank, and one of the inside of the bowl when the toilet has been at rest for a couple of minutes, that would help.

 

[marybythesea]

Three things to look at:
- if the wax seal was not centered properly (it works best to install it on the flange verses the toilet), it can block part of the outlet
- check the tank water level AND the level of the water in the bowl. If the refill hose came off of the clip and is not directing water into the bowl, you will not get a good flush, or, if the tank level is not proper, the bowl level won't be either. To check the bowl level, note the water height, slowly add water from a bucket (if you go too fast, it will flush) and see if it rises. If it does, you have an issue with the bowl fill.
- if the chain to the flapper is too loose, it will close too quickly. There should be a little slack, but not much. Too tight, and it may not let the flapper close every time and constantly run. Too loose, and it may get caught underneath causing the same problem...Like Goldilocks and the porridge ...it needs to be just right.

Thank you ALL for suggestions. Am low-tech, barely able to get on this site, don't know how to post pictures, but I did the following:
Checked with 2' level - bowl shows perfect level. Level of the tank is slightly (<3/16" lower) on the left side.
Water level fill line is 4.5" below top of tank. Water drops 3" below fill line w quick flush. Water drops 5.5" below fill line w held flush.
(based on level change, I calculate this as approx. 83% increase in flushing volume with hold down)
The refill hose is securely clipped and directing water into the (overflow) bowl as expected
Bowl water level does NOT rise while slowly adding bucket of water
Flapper chain is not loose. Has very little slack - quickly responds to flushing lever. Seems to re-seat firmly upon release, no leaking water.
I haven't tried to pour the 5 gallons from a height - will wait till husband can help with that.
Another point of data: The old good flushing Cadet is directly above the Toto, suggesting to me that they share much of the same drain line.
Seems to me that with 4.5" of dry tank I could raise/replace the fill valve for a higher water level, but not sure how to do that.

 

[Jadnashua]

Modern toilets do not dump the entire tank's volume when you flush, just like a water tower, the height of the water provides a bit more oomph.

It sounds like the most likely situation is a partially blocked line...maybe at the toilet flange from a misplaced wax ring, or you may have used a double or jumbo, when not needed, and a bunch of wax squeezed out, partially blocking things.

It's possible the toilet is defective, but that's not very common, Toto has probably the best quality control in the industry, but it can happen. It's also possible that someone dropped something in the toilet, and that's partially blocking it.

My personal experience with 4 Toto toilets is that they flush very well. In many years, it's been most of them that have never seen the need for a plunger or a double flush.

 

[marybythesea]

Think you guys are right, it's probably an installation issue - I'm guessing the wax ring because it was non-professionally installed. Need to replace the Cadet first. Then I can have the Toto professionally reset (checking trapway). Many thanks to you all for good, timely advice.

 

[Jadnashua]

Setting a toilet isn't particularly hard, but they are heavy! If you can handle lifting it, many people can do it without paying someone. There's a 'sticky' at the top of this section on how to do it properly. A good read, even if you don't do it yourself, you'll be able to realize if the 'pro' did it right!