To replace an S trap or not to replace

[adiner]

Doing my best to DIY. Recently had a plumber over to inspect a toilet flange and he noted that the s traps from the vanities removed have lead piping. He recommended to either chip out the lead pipes and tie in copper pipes to the main waste line or to install new p traps along the back wall where the water lines are. I realize that s traps are not up to code as far as new construction is concerned, but since moving in and before removing the vanities there was never a problem with odor, leaking or gurgling from the vanities or traps. Given that the waste lines currently run into the concrete slab and there are two vanities in the bathroom, this would be a bit of an investment of time and money to try and install new p traps (the more sensible option rather than change the pipes and leave s trap waste line). The house was built in 1953, so based on what I have read the lead pipes have another 30 years if not damaged. This renovation is with the intent to sell within the next few years, so while I would like to do a quality job, I also realize that I can't plan entirely for the long haul. We were planning on cutting the new vanities to accommodate the waste line, although they have open backs to accommodate the water lines. I'm just wondering if:

1) continuing to have s traps is as big of a deal as some people claim

2) would it be worthwhile to install a p trap with an AAV valve on the present line to at least prevent any further suctioning.

3) if installing p traps along the wall is the better idea, should this be entirely copper or would pvc suffice. The plumber said he usually would not use pvc underground. Not trying to be sold, but not trying to butcher the job either.

Maybe I'm a bit confused given that we're dealing with pipes running into a concrete slab, which seems to make the project a bit more complicated than if they were running under plywood. Any thoughts, suggestions or insights would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Reach4]

What is that clamp near the floor on that drain line? Is that a shielded coupler?

You could maybe cut the pipe above that clamp/coupler or put a new pipe into that coupler, and have something like this:

Let the gray stuff represent what is below the floor.

Or like this:

Use a shielded coupler to couple to the cut-off pipe. Add some support to avoid stressing the suspected, but hidden lead.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jadnashua]

If your remodel is going to be inspected, leaving the S-traps would not pass an inspection when you're doing a significant remodel. I'd at least put in an AAV (if allowed where you live).

When selling the house, the home inspector might catch it, and make that a condition of the sale, so doing it now is less messy, and may save some money in the process.

The house I grew up in had a lot of S-traps. As I did some tweaks for my mother, I changed them out to include AAVs as running new vent lines would have been a major pain. That's not always the case. An atmospheric vent is still the best way, as that doesn't fail like an AAV will (but they generally have a pretty long life and aren't very expensive to replace).

 

[WorthFlorida]

The bathroom S traps probably worked fine since day one since bathroom sinks generally use far less water volume at a time than say a kitchen sink. Bath sink faucets flow rate are less and the sinks are smaller where you do not have a large volume of water going down the 1 1/4" drain. The problem with an S trap at a kitchen sink, the sink full of water and a 1.5" drain the momentum of the water pulling air into the drain is what causes the gurgling and a trap with a low water level. But as Jim stated, change them out now so on your house sale in the future, one less thing to worry about that can hammer the closing. I would also pull a permit for these traps. A signed off inspection carries a lot of weight that it was all done properly and it records a date for the improvement. There are some not so good home inspectors that realtors use that I wouldn't trust painting a wall.

 

[adiner]

Thanks for the responses.

Yes, I believe it's a shielded coupler. It was there when I got here.

Just to clarify, would installing a p trap with an AAV and running it through the pre-existing waste line under the vanity be sufficient or would I need to reroute the waste line so that it is running from the wall? In the case that it's running from the wall, would I need to run a vent through the roof or can I install an AAV there? Aside from trying to avoid unnecessary work, I guess I'm also trying to make this as simple as possible relative to the vanities that were purchased (probably should have done a bit more measuring before purchasing...). There is a 10 inch clearance between the bottom of the sink and a shelf below. It would be easier to install a p trap with an AAV, but I just want to make sure there's enough clearance for that. If not, I think I may just go with installing wall-mounted p traps.

 

[Jadnashua]

As long as the fitting, location, and AAV are installed properly, the waste can go through the floor. People often want it in the wall to free up space underneath the sink, but it's not required.

 

[Reach4]

Just to clarify, would installing a p trap with an AAV and running it through the pre-existing waste line under the vanity be sufficient

Yes.

There is a 10 inch clearance between the bottom of the sink and a shelf below. It would be easier to install a p trap with an AAV, but I just want to make sure there's enough clearance for that. If not, I think I may just go with installing wall-mounted p traps.

Yep. Otherwise you would need to notch out the shelf. And if there are no doors in front of the shelf, then you would want the wall.

It's not to late to make things even harder on yourself. How about a floating lav counter with bottle traps, or a pair of pedestal sinks.

 

[adiner]

So, floor replaced, faucet installed and ready to hook up and put in a new p-trap. The problem that I have is that the pipe running into the floor is 1.25" and pretty much every AAV I have looked into (studor, oatey are the main brands that come up, I think there was another one too) are 1.5" at the smallest. I read through the product listing for studor and I'm also not sure if the mini-vent is for 1.25" or 1.5" pipes as it seems to suggest the latter. As this is a bathroom sink with a 1.25" drain, it would seem that I should keep it continuous with 1.25" throughout. I've seen that there are various couplers that can connect 1.25" and 1.5" pipes, so I don't know if it would be fine if I use a 1.25" sanitary tee, another piece of 1.25" pvc and then connect that with a coupler for the 1.5" AAV. Also, that would be a lot to connect given that there's not a lot of space underneath. Unless I've overlooked any products out there that would fit with 1.25" piping, I'm not quite sure what to do at this point. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[adiner]

Hi, I tried editing my most recent post, but figured I would just resubmit so that it might attract attention. Once again, any insight is appreciated:

So, floor replaced, faucet installed and ready to hook up and put in a new p-trap. The problem that I have is that the pipe running into the floor is 1.25" and pretty much every AAV I have looked into (studor, oatey are the main brands that come up, I think there was another one too) are 1.5" at the smallest. I read through the product listing for studor and I'm also not sure if the mini-vent is for 1.25" or 1.5" pipes as it seems to suggest the latter. As this is a bathroom sink with a 1.25" drain, it would seem that I should keep it continuous with 1.25" throughout. I've seen that there are various couplers that can connect 1.25" and 1.5" pipes, so I don't know if it would be fine if I use a 1.25" sanitary tee, another piece of 1.25" pvc and then connect that with a coupler for the 1.5" AAV. Also, that would be a lot to connect given that there's not a lot of space underneath. Unless I've overlooked any products out there that would fit with 1.25" piping, I'm not quite sure what to do at this point. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Reach4]

The problem that I have is that the pipe running into the floor is 1.25"

Is that 1.25 inch OD, or is that 1.25 inch schedule 4o pipe, which is 1.66 inches OD?

I suspect 1.25 OD. We can figure something that will fit that will work. It won't be something a plumber would be proud to own.

So do you need an offset, or is the AAV straight above that pipe OK?

 

[adiner]

I measured it and it is 1.25 OD. AAV straight above is ok. I think the picture shared above would work, the problem is that if the tailpipe from the sink is 1.25, the p trap would be 1.25 and the downspout/floor pipe is 1.25, then it would seem I need something to fit 1.25. Not sure why all the AAVs seem to fit only a minimum of 1.5, but any help is appreciated.

 

[Reach4]

A trap adapter with the right washer can adapt 1.5 pvc or abs to 1.25 od slip.

Not going to be literally to code, but if you want to use 1.25 od through the floor, it is a reasonable option.

There are some shielded couplers that seem close. But the ones made to connect 1-1/2 abs/pvc to 1-1/4 copper (Fernco 3001-1125 or Mission CK-1125)are a little big, and the next size down (3001-110 CK-110) are a little small.

 

[adiner]

So I would use a 1.25" p trap (since I don't think I would be modifying the sink tailpipe) and then connect to a sanitary tee that has a 1.25" inlet and then 1.5" outlet to connect to the AAV and then 1.5" for the waste line?

Do they even make a tee like that?

 

[Reach4]

So I would use a 1.25" p trap (since I don't think I would be modifying the sink tailpipe) and then connect to a sanitary tee that has a 1.25" inlet and then 1.5" outlet to connect to the AAV and then 1.5" for the waste line?

Do they even make a tee like that?

I would use a 1-1/2 all hub sanitary tee. I would glue a spigot 1-1/2 1-1/4 trap adapter in the side of the santee. Put the new trap into that.

I would put a pipe below down to a hub 1-1/2 1-1/4 trap adapter . This would glue on to the bottom of the pipe under the trap adapter. It would attach to your 1-1/4 pipe.

In my opinion, that would look less hokey than this Matco-Norca 4560706TD :

Click Inbox, above.

In the top hub of the santee is a pipe that goes up to the AAV.