No water this morning. Pump control box giving off electric tingle and pops breaker. Please help.

[Reach4]

With your guys help, I think I am leaning to the 1.5 10+ gpm Flint and Walling single speed pump. I think when my tank goes, I will replace it with a larger tank. That should help with cycling during irrigation and house use as well, correct? I currently have a 62 gallon tank.
I have questions about a whole house filter that I want to install at the same time. I will look at the forum titles. Should that be a different thread?

Culligan WH-S200-C is for 3/4 and CULLIGAN WH-HD200-C for 1 inch. I don't know if they are good, but have built-in bypasses.

Here are some threads, but you can find more.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/sediment-filter-recommendation.84762/
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/sediment-water-filter-replacement.87923/
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/well-sediment-issue-maybe.75353/

 

[Clydesdale6]

Thanks.

I was thinking of getting this from suppyhouse.com

https://www.supplyhouse.com/America...eavy-Duty-Housing-with-Pressure-Relief-Button

I can't tell the difference between this one and the one below, other than maybe one is clear?

https://www.supplyhouse.com/America...eavy-Duty-Housing-with-Pressure-Relief-Button

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

I can't tell the difference between this one and the one below, other than maybe one is clear?

I think that is the difference. Transparent is cool for letting you see the filter, and opaque is more durable.

The pressure relief could be useful if there is a bypass around the filter.

American Plumber is a Pentair brand. The mounting may be similar to how a Pentair Big Blue housing mounts. The Big Blue housings are not tapped for hanging from the bracket if you buy the housing separately. They expect you to use 5/16 x 1 inch lag bolts. Alternatively you could support the filter from the connecting pipes.

I wonder if the sumps are compatible with the Pentair Big Blue housings. I wouldn't count on it.

 

[Valveman]

With your guys help, I think I am leaning to the 1.5 10+ gpm Flint and Walling single speed pump. I think when my tank goes, I will replace it with a larger tank. That should help with cycling during irrigation and house use as well, correct? I currently have a 62 gallon tank.
I have questions about a whole house filter that I want to install at the same time. I will look at the forum titles. Should that be a different thread?

A 10 GPM, 1.5 HP pump can build a max of 242 PSI. Just the depth of 345' and 60 PSI up top will put 209 PSI on the well pipe by itself. Adding a CSV would only increase this from 209 to 242 PSI, so not much difference. Sure you found ONE instance where someone had used a CSV on 50 year old 100 PSI pipe and had a problem. But you had to look hard through the thousands of five star reviews to find a problem from someone who didn't follow directions. The CSV is like anything else, it works fine and doesn't cause any problems when installed properly. To the contrary, if you read a few hundred other reviews, you will see the CSV makes pump systems last longer, not the other way around. Any reputable pump man would know this.

With a water level of 200' and working at 50 PSI that pump will want to put out 16 GPM. The only way to eliminate cycling on your irrigation system without using a CSV would be to make every sprinkler zone 16 GPM. Any zone set up for 15 GPM or less will cause the pump to cycle. A 60 gallon tank only holds 15 gallons of water. So a 10 GPM sprinkler zone would cause the pump to cycle and be on for about 3 minutes and off for 1 minute. There are 1440 minutes in a day so, a cycle every 4 minutes would be 285 cycles in 24 hours, 142 cycles in 12 hours, and 71 cycles in a 6 hour irrigation zone. Compare this to the CSV only letting the pump cycle once no matter the size of the irrigation zone.

Also, without a CSV the pressure in the house (shower) will be fluctuating from 60 to 40 for every 15 gallons used. There is a big difference in the pressure when comparing the cycling 40/60 over and over to the strong constant 50 PSI from a CSV for as long as the shower is on.

 

[Clydesdale6]

I appreciate the information. I believe I have decided on the 1.5 10gpm single speed pump. I believe I have collected enough information to decide against VFD. I have been limping my pump along for the past 2 years and apparently that is not possible using VFD style systems. They seem to be much more sensitive.
As far as the CSV is concerned. I cannot understand for the life of me why so many well guys are just not interested in these. These are good reputable companies and I do believe them to be honest individuals. I just don't think they have used them so maybe don't have experience with them. The guy I just spoke with believes they will clog easily with sediment and I believe he thought they could cause some hammering in the water line. Don't quote me on that last bit because hammering is not the word he used. But, it was a similar word. Either way, only 1 guy said he would put it in if I really wanted it. Anyway, I can always add it after the pump goes in. So, it seems like I am going with the 1.5hp 10gpm. The other option was 2hp 15gpm. Both pumps are Flint and Walling.
Any advice on the pump size? I have a 61 gallon tank. Thanks.

 

[Reach4]

Any advice on the pump size?

Like what? Confirmation?

 

[Clydesdale6]

1.5HP 10 GMP or 2hp 15gpm. I thank you for your help. I am almost there. The well yields 20gpm according to the town when the water level was 3ooft.

 

[Reach4]

1.5HP 10 GMP or 2hp 15gpm. I thank you for your help. I am almost there. The well yields 20gpm according to the town when the water level was 3ooft.

Do you understand the table in #13? There is a similar table for the 15 gpm pump. You look, and see what you think? Does the 2HP 15 gpm pump have enough force for you if the water level pumps down? If you presume the water level does not fall down to near the pump level, then you have different conditions than if you presume that can happen much. Note that the depths are depth to water and not depth to pump.

For a CSV, there is a bit of backpressure. Add about 15 ft to the actual depth to water.

 

[Clydesdale6]

I thought I understood the table, but I do mnot understand what you are asking in the last post. Sorry. I am just wondering if upsizing the pump is a good idea or not. I don't really see an issue with regular house house hold use, but wondering if this will help with irrigation and which pump would theoretically last longer under the same conditions.

 

[Valveman]

A 2HP, 15 GPM pump will only build 225 PSI max compared to the 1.5HP, 10 GPM building 242 PSI max. From a water level of 200' and 50 PSI the 2HP will pump 16 GPM compared to the 1HP pumping about 11 GPM. The CSV1A will work fine with either of them.

Even the honest pump guys are being lied to by the pump manufacturers. They are being lied to about VFD's as well as CSV's. Manufacturers make SO MUCH MORE MONEY selling expensive and short lived VFD's and pumps compared to an inexpensive CSV that will make pumps last 30 years. You won't see it in writing, but these manufacturers spend every class or factory tour telling these guys how bad CSV's are. I am sure the word you were looking for was "cavitation". As these manufacturers will tell them the back pressure and resulting "cavitation" will destroy the pump. Funny thing is, in over 28 years now and a million or so pumps running on CSV's, that has never happened even once. Of course these manufacturers know the CSV does just the opposite of damaging pumps. Several of the big pump manufacturers blacklisted the CSV way back in 1994. They told all their employees that "CSV's make pumps last longer and use smaller tanks". Since their company makes pumps and tanks, "anyone who mentioned a CSV would be terminated immediately".

Look at what the pump companies are spending their money advertising. They spend so much advertising VFD's that those adds cost 5 bucks a click as compared to 25 cents a click for most things. They only advertise things that make them the most money, which BTW all that money comes out of your pocketbook. Do your research and stay away from the things that are advertised the most, as they also cost you the most.

 

[Clydesdale6]

They are using schedule 120 pvc and I went with the 1.5hp 10gpm. The water is mucky orange. A whole house filter, CSV, and iron treatment will be in the next phase. But, at least I will have water today. Thanks.

 

[Reach4]

They are using schedule 120 pvc and I went with the 1.5hp 10gpm. The water is mucky orange. A whole house filter, CSV, and iron treatment will be in the next phase. But, at least I will have water today. Thanks.

Any thoughts on using a flow inducer sleeve?

 

[Clydesdale6]

I don't even know what that is. Looking it up now.

 

[Valveman]

Picture.

 

[Clydesdale6]

The pump is in the ground and working fine. In thinking back at this job and so I can continue to learn and make the best decision next time, can someone comment on the pipe used in this case. I had schedule 80 prior to pump failure and the installer put in schedule 120. Believe it or not, I have found sites that say 120 is stronger and another where they say it is weaker. I believe it is stronger, but the I.D. is less, so less flow. Was 120 a mistake? What should be used next time? Thanks.

 

[Valveman]

Sch 120 is thicker wall pipe, so it is stronger. However, I don't like the belled ends. I prefer metal couplings, either brass, SS,or Galvanized. The female plastic couplings and the belled ends are the weak point. Using metal couplings anyway, sch 80 is fine for most wells. 120 does have a smaller ID as well, but usually doesn't make much difference on a 20 GPM or smaller pump.

 

[Clydesdale6]

OK. Thank you.

 

[Craigpump]

Two digit resistance meter

yeah I’ve actually watched an old time electrician lick two fingers And then touch bare conductors to see if they were live.

When you mention irrigation in addition to household water use, I’m going to automatically recommend a cycle stop valve. Much less expensive than a “constant pressure” or VFD system.

my father used to lick his fingers and touch the P switch screws, I’m a big fan of a volt meter though

 

[Reach4]

I had schedule 80 prior to pump failure and the installer put in schedule 120.

1-1/4 (or 1 inch) in both cases?

Do you have a photo of the new pipe? You can have schedule 120 with separate couplings rather than bell end.

 

[Clydesdale6]

1 inch in both cases. It has separate couplings.