Myers Pump Performance

[Valveman]

3 HP and larger Franklin motors do have a screened vent plug on the side of the motor at the top. 2 HP and smaller motors do not have a vent. All of these motors have a small hole in the very bottom of the motor to allow water to enter a diaphragm chamber. This diaphragm is designed to equalize the pressure inside the motor with the pressure outside. The diaphragm separates the vent area from the motor housing so water cannot enter the motor from this bottom hole. The antifreeze solution inside the motor will eventually leak out of the motor through the seal or in the larger motors also through the vent hole. If the motor is submerged, the fluid that leaks out is replaced by the fresh water in the well. This is why you can't store a used motor in a place that will freeze. Once the motor has been used enough for the antifreeze to be replaced with fresh water, storing it in a place that will freeze will cause the motor to freeze and usually pushes out one end or the other of the motor, which ruins the motor. If the motor has been laying on the shelf long enough for the fluid to leak or evaporate, this fluid should be replaced before the motor is installed. The air in the motor will also leak out after installation and be replaced with fresh water, usually through the seal, and in the case of 2 HP and smaller this is the only place the water can enter the motor. Even if the motor is only a spoonful of fluid short, the air is always at the top, which causes the top bushing and seal to run dry for a while until the air leaks out. Running the seal dry is what causes the seal to start leaking which lets the air out and water back in. By this time you have already damaged the seal and top bushing, shorting the life of a motor that was already designed to fail in an average of 7 years. Of course Franklin is going to tell you that it is OK to leave them on the shelf a long time, they like to sell more motors. Talk to one of Franklins warranty stations, in our area it is Brandon & Clark Electric. They will tell you that nearly every motor that has been stored and then comes to them to be updated before installation, requires a small amount of fluid to top it off. I have lots of old motors of all sizes laying around my shop. I would not be afraid of installing one of these old motors as long as I top off the fluid before I install it. Some motors like Pleuger actually come with a little funnel and have a removable vent plug at the top with instructions to top off the fluid before installation. Of course that would only be one of the differences between a quality motor and one that was DESIGNED to fail.

 

[vaplumber]

3 HP and larger Franklin motors do have a screened vent plug on the side of the motor at the top. 2 HP and smaller motors do not have a vent. All of these motors have a small hole in the very bottom of the motor to allow water to enter a diaphragm chamber. This diaphragm is designed to equalize the pressure inside the motor with the pressure outside. The diaphragm separates the vent area from the motor housing so water cannot enter the motor from this bottom hole. The antifreeze solution inside the motor will eventually leak out of the motor through the seal or in the larger motors also through the vent hole. If the motor is submerged, the fluid that leaks out is replaced by the fresh water in the well. This is why you can't store a used motor in a place that will freeze. Once the motor has been used enough for the antifreeze to be replaced with fresh water, storing it in a place that will freeze will cause the motor to freeze and usually pushes out one end or the other of the motor, which ruins the motor. If the motor has been laying on the shelf long enough for the fluid to leak or evaporate, this fluid should be replaced before the motor is installed. The air in the motor will also leak out after installation and be replaced with fresh water, usually through the seal, and in the case of 2 HP and smaller this is the only place the water can enter the motor. Even if the motor is only a spoonful of fluid short, the air is always at the top, which causes the top bushing and seal to run dry for a while until the air leaks out. Running the seal dry is what causes the seal to start leaking which lets the air out and water back in. By this time you have already damaged the seal and top bushing, shorting the life of a motor that was already designed to fail in an average of 7 years. Of course Franklin is going to tell you that it is OK to leave them on the shelf a long time, they like to sell more motors. Talk to one of Franklins warranty stations, in our area it is Brandon & Clark Electric. They will tell you that nearly every motor that has been stored and then comes to them to be updated before installation, requires a small amount of fluid to top it off. I have lots of old motors of all sizes laying around my shop. I would not be afraid of installing one of these old motors as long as I top off the fluid before I install it. Some motors like Pleuger actually come with a little funnel and have a removable vent plug at the top with instructions to top off the fluid before installation. Of course that would only be one of the differences between a quality motor and one that was DESIGNED to fail.

Ok. This makes sense. Guess I should keep an eye on them. There is no warranty shop in my area for franklin. If I have an old motor on the shelf, of which I have several, could I just remove the end cap and top it off? Ive had them apart before so I am familiar with the kingsbury bearing in the bottom, and of how that goes back together. Also what's your opinion of some of the foreign motors that are starting to show up? I cant think of any of there names right off but Ive seen a few odd balls recently.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Speedbump]

Also what's your opinion of some of the foreign motors that are starting to show up? I cant think of any of there names right off but Ive seen a few odd balls recently.

I can comment a little on that. I buy Betta Flo pumps from National Pump Co. They used to be Georgia Pacific Pump Co. They used to offer the Franklin and the Shofu motor. I was told by the one of the Brothers that used to own the company that I didn't want the Shofu. I don't see it in their new catalog. I used the Myers 3" submersibles that had a European style motor on it and had very good luck with it. I am not selling the HydroFlo 3" with the Sumoto motor and so far absolutely no problems.

I guess there are good and bad foreign motors just like there are good ones. The other one I used briefly when Pentair and Franklin got in their original Pi**ing contest was the Tesla called Pentair for a while. It was pure junk. I sold maybe 9 of them and got them all back within weeks. They were 2 thru 5 hp.

Now Pentair and ITT have gone together and designed their own motor. It is out in the three wire and will soon be out in two wire up to 1.5 hp. The higher horse power motors are coming soon. I'm staying clear of them for several years. I don't want to be a guinea pig again.

bob...

 

[Valveman]

Bob you said; I am not selling the HydroFlo 3" with the Sumoto motor. I think you meant you are NOW selling.....


Yes, all you have to do is top it off with fluid. Not to many people can take them apart and do that. I am currently testing some Sumoto motors and have been offered a Karlington to test but, haven't had time to start it. I have had some Sumoto motors on an accelerated test since June of last year. So far so good. I like how they are built. They have ball bearings on top and bottom instead of Kingsbury on the bottom and just a bushing on top like Franklin. The Sumoto is also oil filled (mineral oil) instead of water. This reminds me of the old Reda motors of the 60's and early 70's. I can show you where some of these old Reda motors are still running after nearly forty years. It was a Reda engineer in 1973 who told me about "planned obsolescence". He said Reda can't make any money in this business if all our pumps and motors last 30 years so, they redesigned there motors and pumps to last approximately five years. About two years later I stopped selling Reda because of all the problems. Impellers went from red brass to plastic, motor windings were shortened dramatically, American made ball bearings were switched to imports, weaker splined shafts replaced heavy duty shafts and taper collets, and the list goes on. If the Sumoto only last half as long as a Reda, I should be able to destroy one in about 4 years with accelerated testing. Until then the jury is still out but, it looks promising. I have always liked Hitachi and Pleuger motors in the 6" and larger size. BTW the Goulds Centri-Pro 6" and larger motors are just Hitachi motors painted blue and re-labeled. Don't know why they are trying to keep it a secret. Hitachi motors are great motors and have a great track record. I learned most of what I know about motor cooling and lubrication from doing 1,200' to 1,600' salt water wells for oil companies. Building my own custom pumps and installing 6" motors in 7" casing and having to put it below the perforations with a high static level in warm water is a tough application for any motor. If you don't get it right they run for about 4 hours and burn up. Then you have to pull 1,200 to 1,600' of 3 ½" tubing, usually a wet string so your covered with and standing in salt water all day, usually during an ice storm. Replace the motor and run the pipe back down the well, and do all this for free because I messed up the installation. I messed up several but, I learned quickly. Talk about an accelerated test, if these motors would run a year in this application they would last 20 in a standard application. Franklin motors would not stay in these applications, Hitachi would last very well and Pleuger even better. Pleuger is a wet winding instead of a canned stator like Franklin and Hitachi. I cut my milk teeth on these type wells and after about 20 years, I could sure tell you which motors will handle heat better than others. I was so carful to make sure that they were full of fluid, that I didn't top off the fluid until they were spliced, screwed to the first joint of pipe, vertical, and ready to go in the hole.

 

[Speedbump]

Your right, I meant "I am Now Selling".

I remember the Reda's very well too. I installed half dozen or so back in the 60's and 70's. They held up very well. We didn't have a lot of 3" wells in my area. As a matter of fact they were very scarce as were 2.5" wells. (Try to find parts for them today). I try to stay away from the big stuff. Too much money outlay at stake when one little slip can ruin the whole year. I like the small domestic work. If I need to know anything about big motors etc. I'll ask you.

bob...

 

[Raucina]

Can you guys elaborate on how to open the Franklin motor [3 hp or less] and what sort of water to add? Or would cold storage at high humidity suffice?

Could lay it down in the wine cave shrinkwrapped with a wet sponge inside?

Crazy thought but..... store them in a non toxic anti freeze solution?

 

[Valveman]

2 HP and smaller are different than 3 HP and larger but, they all already have an antifreeze solution in them. So the best way to store them would be vertical, submerged in a water/antifreeze solution. 4" PVC with a cap on one end would work. Even better would be to come around and spin the rotor a little once or twice a year. Only a few parts and pieces to take one apart. Just got to get everything back straight. If you could find a parts break down it would help.