No worries, I should have started with the diagram. I'm happy I posted though, I've learned a lot already – being forced to explain to the point where others can understand is always helpful!
Help with tub rough-ins (w/ pics!)
- Thread starter Stefaan
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I presumed it made sense, and though it was impressive-looking.
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Ok, that makes sense. So basically, instead of a hot and cold valve for the tub side, I need to have a thermostatic valve and a single volume control like the shower does, right? There's no way to just use the one thermostatic valve that I already have for everything?
WorthFlorida
Clinical Trail 5th session completed 4/24/24.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/help-with-rough-in-plumbing-pics.91687/#post-660141
Stefaan, you're dealing with an expensive setup and a very nice quality tub & shower fixture. Honestly, as you implied, you're a little off the mark to do this job yourself and there are times that you need to hire a plumber. As long as you have all the parts needed the plumber should supply the piping and a good plumber will have this done in one day or less. It will be safe, installed correctly and usually it will never leak after testing. It will be more expensive but once the tile is up and there is a problem, it gets more expensive than paying a plumber. We all love to do our own work as a good feeling and able to learn, but if you're married, the wife will be _issed off forever if it's screwed up. The big problem is all the TV remodeling shows make it look easy and fast. Those one hour TV shows (40 minutes air time) usually takes 3-6 months to complete a remodel.
Stefaan, you're dealing with an expensive setup and a very nice quality tub & shower fixture. Honestly, as you implied, you're a little off the mark to do this job yourself and there are times that you need to hire a plumber. As long as you have all the parts needed the plumber should supply the piping and a good plumber will have this done in one day or less. It will be safe, installed correctly and usually it will never leak after testing. It will be more expensive but once the tile is up and there is a problem, it gets more expensive than paying a plumber. We all love to do our own work as a good feeling and able to learn, but if you're married, the wife will be _issed off forever if it's screwed up. The big problem is all the TV remodeling shows make it look easy and fast. Those one hour TV shows (40 minutes air time) usually takes 3-6 months to complete a remodel.
I hear you, but that's just not how I do things. I am capable, of doing this well, maybe not as fast, and not without the advice of experts, but this is just how I learn new things. And yea, it would suck if I had to tear open the wall someday, but I've hired people to do work before and I'm (most of the time) left wondering why I paid someone to do something who cares less and has less attention to detail than myself. I never expected this to be fast either; that's why I'm taking the time to ask for help here. I'm sure you can relate...
Can anyone give me input here; couldn't I use a remote pressure balance valve like the following link to solve my problem with minimal modification?
https://www.build.com/product/summa...oZiHCcETmkM2St7OU7xoC6nEQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
https://www.build.com/product/summa...oZiHCcETmkM2St7OU7xoC6nEQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
wwhitney
In the Trades
You also need a means to set the maximum hot temperature to 120F. So a remote thermostatic mixing valve for the hot water line is required; and it would be enough without a pressure balancing valve (unless the hand shower means that it would need to meet the shower requirements as well). I would think it would have to be accessible for servicing or setting the temperature.
I'm curious on your layout in the OP--is there a reason the hot/cold bodies have to be horizontal? Because there's some simpler piping options if they are vertical.
And why the big U-bend for the hand shower, why not just a short pipe to the drop ear elbow?
Cheers, Wayne
I'm curious on your layout in the OP--is there a reason the hot/cold bodies have to be horizontal? Because there's some simpler piping options if they are vertical.
And why the big U-bend for the hand shower, why not just a short pipe to the drop ear elbow?
Cheers, Wayne
Hi Wayne, thanks for helping out! I understand what you are saying in regards to needed the thermostatic mixing valve VS just a pressure-balancing valve. Sounds like the simplest thing (since I will need to access this valve sooner or later) would be to have a non-remote thermostatic valve in place of the hot water valve to keep this the same as the shower. I do not want to bury a remote valve under the tile for obvious reasons.
In regards to the orientation of the hot/cold bodies, I am going to find out an answer to that question because it would be super helpful to have them be vertical. Lastly, the big u-bend will absolutely be a short pipe as you said, I placed that together quickly to get the point across which I now realize has confused a lot of people!
Thanks again, I will report back when I hear about the valve bodies –
I just talked to my sales rep and it turns out I can mount the valve bodies vertically which will save me a lot of space. In regards to scalding, he said that he was aware that the shower was required to have a thermostatic valve, but sells tub filling assemblies all the time and was unaware they needed protection. I think I'm going to put a remote pressure balance valve (https://riverbendhome.com/products/...NyZuUmBEQDf1Z-PIlKi-Rlj8r56EcYFkaAv2GEALw_wcB) in line to the tub filler hot/cold and call it a day.
Plumber69
In the Trades
Why not get a thermostatic valve. lose the diverter and just volume control everything
wwhitney
In the Trades
I don't see that as complying with IPC 412.5, as you can't set a maximum temperature on the pressure balance valve. Is your plumbing code the IPC?
Cheers, Wayne
Plumber01
In the Trades
He's trying to match his sink faucet which I'm guessing is wall mount.
Exactly. This is what I said many posts ago. Install an ASSE 1070 certified mixing valve in a remote but accessible location and be done with it.
wwhitney
In the Trades
P.S. In case it isn't clear, a normal pressure balancing shower valve also has a setting to cap the maximum fraction of hot water it will put out. So if the hot water heater is, say, 130F, you adjust the maximum hot fraction so you get only 120F (or lower) from the shower/tub. Then the pressure balancing ensures the hot fraction won't be exceeded with fluctuations in pressure.
But on that remote Grohe pressure balancing valve, I didn't see anything on the spec sheet about an ability to set maximum hot fraction. So it doesn't provide the requisite anti-scalding protection when used alone.
Cheers, Wayne
Main reason is that I already purchased hot/cold valves and a diverter so I'd like to work with that instead of paying a bunch more money for a 2nd thermostatic valve and matching trim.
I believe Westport, CT adopts 2015 IPC. Is that what you meant? You need to be able to set a max temp for a tub faucet?? All I'm worried about is scalding my kid in the bath with the hand shower...
I hear what you are saying...seems excessive for a simple hand wand, but I will do some more research. Thank you for your input!
wwhitney
In the Trades
Yup, gotcha....I'm going to see if I can just get another thermostatic from the manufacturer so that it's easily serviceable and meets all requirments. Thanks again for helping,
Stefaan
Hey all - just wanted to give an update to this project. I contacted the manufacturer and they recommended this pressure balancing valve to limit the temperature and prevent scalding. I was able to simplify the plumbing of the rough-ins quite a bit too, thanks to a lot of your comments/concerns so thank you. I feel much better about this than my first photo!
Plumber01
In the Trades
Close but no cigar. You've gotten bad information from your supplier and now from the manufacturer. The correct answers have been said multiple times in this thread.
That pressure balancing valve does not provide scald protection.
How are you going to access it for service?
If I remember correctly, the manufacturer requires check valves ahead of that pressure balancing valve to keep the warranty intact FWIW.
That pressure balancing valve does not provide scald protection.
How are you going to access it for service?
If I remember correctly, the manufacturer requires check valves ahead of that pressure balancing valve to keep the warranty intact FWIW.
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