Cycle Stop VS VFD Do I really need to covert the system?

[Valveman]

Glad you got it working. Sorry the plumber wouldn't remove the check valve. If the check valve down the well on the pump is not working it must be replaced. The extra check valve up top takes some pressure off the lower check, which keeps it from closing as well. The extra check valve up top also mask many problems, and can cause a water hammer on pump start that also causes a pressure surge. The surge from the check valve water hammer was probably was was causing the union to break. It would have been better to remove the check valve but just getting rid of the union will probably solve your problem, as everything else is rated for much higher pressure.

It is good that you are educating yourself on how pump systems work. As you can see just taking the contractors word for it can sometimes be the worst thing you can do. Hope you can find a trustworthy contractor to help, but they are hard to find these days, which is why so many people are learning to DIY.

 

[Bunny]

Glad you got it working. Sorry the plumber wouldn't remove the check valve. If the check valve down the well on the pump is not working it must be replaced. The extra check valve up top takes some pressure off the lower check, which keeps it from closing as well. The extra check valve up top also mask many problems, and can cause a water hammer on pump start that also causes a pressure surge. The surge from the check valve water hammer was probably was was causing the union to break. It would have been better to remove the check valve but just getting rid of the union will probably solve your problem, as everything else is rated for much higher pressure.

It is good that you are educating yourself on how pump systems work. As you can see just taking the contractors word for it can sometimes be the worst thing you can do. Hope you can find a trustworthy contractor to help, but they are hard to find these days, which is why so many people are learning to DIY.

Thank you, I found a well company in my area who comes highly recommended, he is going to come visit when his schedule is a little more open as we are not in urgent need anymore. I thought from what I learned here that there must be an inline check valve in the system and so that would make the one up top redundant but you bring up an important point if by chance it is not working or not working well and this was some ones fix that might explain it or it may have been something done to get the old well to pass inspection so it could be used for the new build. My hope is to find a reputable well person whom I can talk to about these things moving forward.
Unfortunenatly the company we were using had already been servicing the water filtration system so we just continued with them, blind trust was a big mistake! For me if a company is willing to leave you out of water ( in 94degree heat and you have livestock) for weeks or months and basically is willing to hold your water hostage until you give them $5-$6000.00 I cannot in good conscience do business' with them anymore.
I am incredibly grateful to have found this forum as I feel much more confidant in the decision to not change the valve ( they told me that leaving the cycle stop was going to cause thousands of $$ damage to our well system now I understand that is not at all true! and understanding the well itself and how it works helps me understand what the problem likely is when a problem arises and how to explain what it is to a plumber or well repair person. This also I think will keep us from getting ripped off or Ill advised. Again I am so thankful for everyone who was willing to advise me here I learned so much!!

 

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[Bannerman]

there must be an inline check valve in the system

Your submersible pump is equipped with a check valve directly within the pump. Additional check valves such as the one seen at the top of the well casing, are not needed and only cause problems as you have experienced.

if by chance it is not working or not working well and this was some ones fix that might explain it

To clarify, if the check valve within the pump is not working correctly, installing an additional check valve at the top will be a short term fix allow water supply to be quickly restored until the pump's check valve is soon repaired. To address the pump's check valve issue, will require pulling out the pump to either 1) repair the original check valve, 2) install a check valve directly at the pump's outlet fitting, or 3) replace the pump which will include a new check valve. Once the pump's check valve has been repaired/replaced, the temporary check valve should then be removed.

 

[Bunny]

Your submersible pump is equipped with a check valve directly within the pump. Additional check valves such as the one seen at the top of the well casing, are not needed and only cause problems as you have experienced.


To clarify, if the check valve within the pump is not working correctly, installing an additional check valve at the top will be a short term fix allow water supply to be quickly restored until the pump's check valve is soon repaired. To address the pump's check valve issue, will require pulling out the pump to either 1) repair the original check valve, 2) install a check valve directly at the pump's outlet fitting, or 3) replace the pump which will

 

[Bunny]

I believe the inline check valve is probably working fine I was trying to give a guess why the additional one was installed my hope is once I get the opportunity to speak with the person from the new well company he might be able to help me sort that out. If it is redundant I would like to see if we can remove it , as everyone here has explained that it will do nothing but cause additional problems. I will check back once I find out about the additional check valve situation! Thank you!

 

[Valveman]

The water hammer from that extra check valve should no longer be able to blow out the pipe since you removed the union. The check valve down the well on the pump and the extra one up top are still working fine, or you would know it. The well company probably adds those extra check valves to every job they do, as it says to do so in many how to books and manuals. But when you start blowing out pipes or hearing a loud thump on pump start, they will want to come and replace one or both check valves to fix the problem. That extra check valve is what causes the pipe to blow out and makes the loud thump on pump start. If you just leave out the extra check valve that problem will never happen.

Pump guys are used to check valves wearing out from the pump cycling on and off all the time. So, they put on extra check valve because they know the cycling on and off will shorten the life of a check valve and they figure two would be better. Just another of many problems adding a Cycle Stop Valve will fix. Since it is already installed I would leave it for now. But remember when it does start causing problems just remove it, don't replace it.

 

[Bunny]

The water hammer from that extra check valve should no longer be able to blow out the pipe since you removed the union. The check valve down the well on the pump and the extra one up top are still working fine, or you would know it. The well company probably adds those extra check valves to every job they do, as it says to do so in many how to books and manuals. But when you start blowing out pipes or hearing a loud thump on pump start, they will want to come and replace one or both check valves to fix the problem. That extra check valve is what causes the pipe to blow out and makes the loud thump on pump start. If you just leave out the extra check valve that problem will never happen.

Pump guys are used to check valves wearing out from the pump cycling on and off all the time. So, they put on extra check valve because they know the cycling on and off will shorten the life of a check valve and they figure two would be better. Just another of many problems adding a Cycle Stop Valve will fix. Since it is already installed I would leave it for now. But remember when it does start causing problems just remove it, don't replace it.

Gotcha thank you so much! The advice has been more appreciated then I can say. I was really concerned and somewhat panicked at the beginning of this whole thing thinking I needed to come up with all this money or the Cycle stop valve was going to ruin our well! Now I understand much better how it all works and what might cause an issue in the future (not the CSV!) but I would not have known we had an extra check valve without the knowledge here. Thank you for being willing to share our expertise