Priming pump - how long might it takes?

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Verywellfl

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Grabbing at straws...before I must get a new well drilled.

How long might it take to prime an above water well pump? (SE Florida, well about at 18 feet (guessing))
Is the upper shut off valve good enough or priming the pump? see picture (The next option is the hose for filling up the washing machine...or a faucet in the trailer about 40 feet away)



New tank, new motor, new plumbing - tank gauge is not moving from "0" at all after running the pump for about one minute.
(Old motor with new tank was working but pump didn't shut. Tank reached only 54psi. After replacing 40/60 to a 30/50 switch no changes. Turned motor off by throwing the power switch. Worked for 1/2 day...than no water at all. We cannot locate the well....pipe from motor runs in the opposite direction of where the well should be - according to old plans.)
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Valveman

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If there is no check or foot valve at the well, you will need to add on on the suction side of that pump or you will never get it primed. I am guessing it just keeps taking water?

Also you should use metal pipe for a foot or so on the suction side of the pump. When the pump takes too long to prime the water gets warm and causes the plastic pipe on the suction side to deform and starts air leaks.
 

Bannerman

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Is there a pressure tank inside the house that is connected to the line on the left that (penetrated) the wall into the house?
 
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Verywellfl

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If there is no check or foot valve at the well, you will need to add on on the suction side of that pump or you will never get it primed. I am guessing it just keeps taking water?

Also you should use metal pipe for a foot or so on the suction side of the pump. When the pump takes too long to prime the water gets warm and causes the plastic pipe on the suction side to deform and starts air leaks.
We still cannot find the well...pump takes a little over a gallon of water. (Spitss it out when starting it).
Thanks for the metal pipe tip! I'll see if it can be changed.
Super stupid question: must the tank have psi to start with or would pump/ water do this? New tank was pre-filled ( 38psi) but now it's " empty".
 

Verywellfl

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Is there a pressure tank inside the house that is connected to the line on the left that perpetrated the wall into the house?
New tank is in a shed, close to the pump. Second pic shows pipe coming in from the pump, first pic shows pipe above tank.
Pipe coming into the Shad was originally low to to ground- same hight than pump. Pipe was raised about 3 feet inside the shed for easier access. All done when issue started.
My ex+handyman is ready to contract a well driller,saying the well is dry...I've no clue but I'm reading up on it online..and would like to try anything before paying for a new well. (And I really don't want to dig the trench for a new pipe. - I was digging all day trying to find the well...).
any input/ ideas are welcome!
 

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Bannerman

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We still cannot find the well.
The well appears to be directly to the right of the pump, below where the PVC pipe is entering the ground.

pump takes a little over a gallon of water. (Spitss it out when starting it).
Are you shutting off the priming valve before starting the pump?

New tank was pre-filled ( 38psi) but now it's " empty".
With using a 30/50 pressure switch, the air precharge within the pressure tank air chamber should be calibrated to 27 psi while there is no water within the tank. While the pump is properly pumping water, water will enter the water chamber which will push against the rubber diaphragm that separates the air and water chambers. The water pressure against the diaphragm will further compress the air within the air chamber so whenever the water pressure is 28-50 psi, the air chamber pressure will also equal 28-50 psi which will maintain pressure in the system within the pressure switch operating range including while the pump is shut off.
 

Verywellfl

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The well appears to be directly to the right of the pump, below where the PVC pipe is entering the ground.


Are you shutting off the priming valve before starting the pump?


With using a 30/50 pressure switch, the air precharge within the pressure tank air chamber should be calibrated to 27 psi while there is no water within the tank. While the pump is properly pumping water, water will enter the water chamber which will push against the rubber diaphragm that separates the air and water chambers. The water pressure against the diaphragm will further compress the air within the air chamber so whenever the water pressure is 28-50 psi, the air chamber pressure will also equal 28-50 psi which will maintain pressure in the system within the pressure switch operating range including while the pump is shut off.
Well location:
We dug around the suction pipe going down. It goes down straight for about 2 feet, then an 45 degree elbow makes it run horizontal. The it makes another approx. 15 degree turn without elbow or anything und disappears under a slab. I dug around the slab but cannot find a pipe coming out. . official papers show the well about 80 feet away...but about 30-45 degrees off direction from where the pipe points before it disappears underneath the slab .


Priming valve ( the bottom one in the picture) left a little open for air getting out Should it be totally shut?

Tank: should I fill pressure tank to 28/38 psi before priming? (just to be 100% sure!)
New motor comes with pressure switch which might be a 40/60 -38psi needed I think)
Goulds J5S, Shallow Well Jet Pump, JS+ Series, 1/2 HP

( Thank you very much for your patience for my stupid questions!)
 
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Reach4

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Super stupid question: must the tank have psi to start with or would pump/ water do this? New tank was pre-filled ( 38psi) but now it's " empty".
If you are saying that the air pressure in the tank was 38 psi a few months ago, and now the air pressure is zero, then either you did not have a good valve cap on the Schrader valve and the Schrader valve leaks, OR the tank is bad.

Bad tank is should not stop you from priming, but I have no experience with priming.
 

Verywellfl

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If you are saying that the air pressure in the tank was 38 psi a few months ago, and now the air pressure is zero, then either you did not have a good valve cap on the Schrader valve and the Schrader valve leaks, OR the tank is bad.

Bad tank is should not stop you from priming, but I have no experience with priming.
Thanks. We got a brand new tank. Worked fine but then new piping was needed and air " left".
 

Reach4

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Thanks. We got a brand new tank. Worked fine but then new piping was needed and air " left".
The kind of tank people usually get is called a captive air tank. Air does not leave a good tank, at least not within a few years.
 

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should I fill pressure tank to 28/38 psi before priming?
There is no pressure range for the tank's air pre-charge. If you are using a pressure switch that is calibrated for 30/50 psi, as you stated in your initial post, then the tank's air pre-charge should be 27 psi while the tank contains no water.

Yes, the air precharge within the tank's air chamber should remain at the correct pressure even when there are no pipes connected to the tank.

The correct pressure tank precharge pressure is not a requirement for priming the pump, but is important for the pressure switch to correctly operatate the pump once it is sucessfully primed and pumping water.

Since the suction pipe directly to the right of the pump is vertical, a 45° elbow would not result in the buried section being horizontal. To change direction from vertical to horizontal would require a 90° elbow.
 
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Verywellfl

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There is no pressure range for the tank's air pre-charge. If you are using a pressure switch that is calibrated for 30/50 psi, as you stated in your initial post, then the tank's air pre-charge should be 27 psi while the tank contains no water.

Yes, the air precharge within the tank's air chamber should remain at the correct pressure even when there are no pipes connected to the tank.

The pressure tank pressure is not a requirement for priming the pump, but is important for the pressure switch to correctly operatate the pump once it is sucessfully primed and pumping water.

Since the suction pipe directly to the right of the pump is vertical, a 45° elbow would not result in the buried section being horizontal. To change direction from vertical to horizontal would require a 90° elbow.
Sorry 90 degree elbow
 

Reach4

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Even if you disconnect all pipes? (Water Worker 20gla pressurized well tank fro HD)
Yes. Filling and measuring the air is through the Schrader valve on the top. That valve looks and is like the valve on a car wheel. Analogy: when you do car engine work, the tires should still hold their pressure.

There is one other possibility to consider: there may be air pressure there, but your air pressure gauge does not press the pin down sufficiently. The valve may not stick up as much as your gauge wants. If that happens, there is an extension sold at car places that can cure that. https://www.autozone.com/tire-repai...-metal-tire-valve-extenders-4-pack/542360_0_0 But know that the seal in the valve cap is the primary seal. The valve with the pin is secondary in that it can leak a bit over an extended time. So keep the cap on when not filling or measuring.

There does exist a tank with no captive air, but it is unlikely you have one of those.

When talking to the well driller, a drilled well with a 4 or 5 inch casing is worth the substantial premium over a well point. I understand that it is hard on cash flow. So if the well dealer tries to sell you on the more expensive option, it is not just trying to upsell you. A home improvement loan for this would be more prudent than a car loan IMO.

In thinking about this, I was thinking that a drilled well should increase the property value, but may be I was thinking that buyers are more sophisticated than they tend to be. Then I started wondering if the tax assessor would increase your assessment for this definite improvement. Another bonus of the drilled well with a submersible pump: you will not hear the pump. The fact that the submersible pump will draw about half the power of a jet pump for a given amount of water is not that significant I expect.

When your water worked, was it good water?
 
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Verywellfl

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Yes. Filling and measuring the air is through the Schrader valve on the top. That looks like the valve on a car wheel. Analogy: when you do car engine work, the tires should still hold their pressure.

There is one other possibility to consider: there may be air pressure there, but your air pressure gauge does not press the pin down sufficiently. The valve may not stick up as much as your gauge wants. If that happens, there is an extension sold at car places that can cure that. But know that the seal in the valve cap is the primary seal. The valve with the pin is secondary in that it can leak a bit over an extended time.

There does exist a tank with no captive air, but it is unlikely you have one of those.

When talking to the well driller, a drilled well with a 4 or 5 inch casing is worth the substantial premium over a well point. I understand that it is hard on cash flow.

When your water worked, was it good water?
Thanks so much!
Water was very hard and had iron bacteria und high .. particles ( forgot the name). I will ask a price for both options.
 

Verywellfl

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Yes. Filling and measuring the air is through the Schrader valve on the top. That valve looks and is like the valve on a car wheel. Analogy: when you do car engine work, the tires should still hold their pressure.

There is one other possibility to consider: there may be air pressure there, but your air pressure gauge does not press the pin down sufficiently. The valve may not stick up as much as your gauge wants. If that happens, there is an extension sold at car places that can cure that. https://www.autozone.com/tire-repai...-metal-tire-valve-extenders-4-pack/542360_0_0 But know that the seal in the valve cap is the primary seal. The valve with the pin is secondary in that it can leak a bit over an extended time. So keep the cap on when not filling or measuring.

There does exist a tank with no captive air, but it is unlikely you have one of those.

When talking to the well driller, a drilled well with a 4 or 5 inch casing is worth the substantial premium over a well point. I understand that it is hard on cash flow. So if the well dealer tries to sell you on the more expensive option, it is not just trying to upsell you. A home improvement loan for this would be more prudent than a car loan IMO.

In thinking about this, I was thinking that a drilled well should increase the property value, but may be I was thinking that buyers are more sophisticated than they tend to be. Then I started wondering if the tax assessor would increase your assessment for this definite improvement. Another bonus of the drilled well with a submersible pump: you will not hear the pump. The fact that the submersible pump will draw about half the power of a jet pump for a given amount of water is not that significant I expect.

When your water worked, was it good water?
Well driller said 2" is sufficient+cannot drill too deep in order to avoid salt water. He said well might be " covered' by tree roots. He did not have an explanation why the pipe is pointing the a different direction. ( My guess by now: previous owner hooked it up to an "irrigation well" (less setback required)... without proper documentation. Wee person tried to prime the pump for 15 minutes...saying connector to suction pipe might suck air. My X denied this possibly.
(If I pay for a new well and dig a 100ft trench and still have the same issue....my x should be out of my reach for a while..
 

Reach4

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The problem with 2 inch is that you need a suction pump. Submersible pumps are nicer.
 
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