Water Tank Bladder issues

Mihomeowner · Mar 2, 2014

I have a well system, set to 40-60psi. Just replaced the well pump a few months ago due to a lightning strike.

Anyway, when the pump got replaced I move from a 30-50psi to the 40-60psi. So I set my bladder to 38psi.

Worked fine for a couple months then I noticed a little knocking in my pipes when the well pump kicked on/off and the gauge acting kind of crazy. Drained the system and took the pressure of the bladder... it was 56psi. Thought that was odd... so I let air out to get it back to 38psi.

A couple days ago I drained the system and tested it again and it was back up to 56psi so I let air out again.

Now I am thinking my bladder is toast? Why does the pressure INCREASE in it? I am trying to wrap my head around it.

LLigetfa · Mar 2, 2014

It is not uncommon for the water to leak across the bladder but not drain back. The hole could be up high or it could seal against the tank side/bottom.

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

Craigpump · Mar 2, 2014

It's very common for an old diaphram/bladder tank to fail after the precharge is increased. The old diaphram is weak, the pressures on both sides have been increased and pretty soon the tank fails.

We see it all the time

Mihomeowner · Mar 2, 2014

craigpump said:
It's very common for an old diaphram/bladder tank to fail after the precharge is increased. The old diaphram is weak, the pressures on both sides have been increased and pretty soon the tank fails.

We see it all the time

Thanks. This house is 12 years old, we bought the house 2 years ago. First time on a well, but I am learning. The bladder might have been bad for a while because we have had some bad water hammer. Anyway, what does a new bladder usually run?

Valveman · Mar 3, 2014

Even if you have a tank where replacing the bladder is a possibility, don’t just replace the bladder. You need a new tank. Now is a good time to research what causes bladders to go bad, because the same thing that will also destroy your pump in short order. If you need the search words, try “stop pump cycling”.

Reach4 · Mar 3, 2014

mihomeowner said:
Thanks. This house is 12 years old, we bought the house 2 years ago. First time on a well, but I am learning. The bladder might have been bad for a while because we have had some bad water hammer. Anyway, what does a new bladder usually run?

What markings are on the tank?

DonL · Mar 3, 2014

Sounds like you did not drain the tank.

Water will absorber air, It will not release it magically.

Or I missed a class.

Valveman · Mar 3, 2014

DonL said:
Sounds like you did not drain the tank.

Water will absorber air, It will not release it magically.

Or I missed a class.

In cases like this the water gets on top of the bladder and can't be drained from the tank. You basically have to drill or punch a hole in the side of the tank to get the water out. An 80 gallon pressure tank can weigh 700 pounds when full of water like this. You have to get the water out somehow to be able to lift the tank out.

LLigetfa · Mar 3, 2014

DonL said:
Sounds like you did not drain the tank.

Water will absorber air, It will not release it magically.

Or I missed a class.

Ja, maybe you slept through it. Water trapped on the wrong side of the bladder will only absorb so much air. For the tank to quickly waterlog, the bladder needs to be seriously busted, not just have a small hole in it.

DonL · Mar 3, 2014

LLigetfa said:
Ja, maybe you slept through it. Water trapped on the wrong side of the bladder will only absorb so much air. For the tank to quickly waterlog, the bladder needs to be seriously busted, not just have a small hole in it.

I will buy what Valveman said, that makes sense.

But if you tell me that a leaking bladder will stay under pressure for very long. I do not buy it. The air will push water out of the hole, until all the air is gone. You would most likely hear it.

Like I was saying the tank was not drained.

And to add, the reason the water does not come out, is because of the Vacuum.

LLigetfa · Mar 3, 2014

What vacuum? The only vacuum I see is in your theory.

The OP said there was 56 PSI of pressure after he drained it. The water side of the bladder can get coated with iron that resembles baby poop. It is not beyond reason that the bladder may seal against the side or bottom of the tank. I think both valveman and craigpump said the same thing. Only thing at odds is your theory in a vacuum.

DonL · Mar 3, 2014

LLigetfa said:
What vacuum? The only vacuum I see is in your theory.

The OP said there was 56 PSI of pressure after he drained it. The water side of the bladder can get coated with iron that resembles baby poop. It is not beyond reason that the bladder may seal against the side or bottom of the tank. I think both valveman and craigpump said the same thing. Only thing at odds is your theory in a vacuum.

"The OP said there was 56 PSI of pressure after he drained it"

OK, I missed that part, I did not read it like that. It says system, not tank.

Carry On.

Mihomeowner · Mar 3, 2014

Am I correct that when we say "draining the tank", we are talking about draining the system? There isn't any kind of separate drain for this tank, is there? The drain I use to drain the system is very close to the tank (a foot away)... just wanted to confirm there isn't any kind of separate drain hidden on the bladder tank anywhere?

I've drained it twice and checked the pressure. Guess I will do it again and post the results.

Valveman · Mar 3, 2014

mihomeowner said:
I've drained it twice and checked the pressure. Guess I will do it again and post the results.

Every time you do that more water gets on top of the bladder. The bladder is broken and sealing over the inlet/outlet hole. You won't be able to drain that tank enough to get it out of the house until you drill or punch a hole in the side.

Mihomeowner · Mar 4, 2014

valveman said:
Every time you do that more water gets on top of the bladder. The bladder is broken and sealing over the inlet/outlet hole. You won't be able to drain that tank enough to get it out of the house until you drill or punch a hole in the side.

I think your right. I was able to drain the system using a 5 gallon bucket. My neighbor who is a plumber said that doesn't sound right.

Mihomeowner · Mar 22, 2014

valveman said:
Every time you do that more water gets on top of the bladder. The bladder is broken and sealing over the inlet/outlet hole. You won't be able to drain that tank enough to get it out of the house until you drill or punch a hole in the side.

Whats the best way to drill in to this thing? It's a 60 gallon well-x-trol bladder. Replacing it with a 82 gallon water worker. But like you said, getting it out might be the tricky part. Any tips for emptying it?

Mihomeowner · Mar 22, 2014

LLigetfa said:
What vacuum? The only vacuum I see is in your theory.

The OP said there was 56 PSI of pressure after he drained it. The water side of the bladder can get coated with iron that resembles baby poop. It is not beyond reason that the bladder may seal against the side or bottom of the tank. I think both valveman and craigpump said the same thing. Only thing at odds is your theory in a vacuum.

We have a lot of iron in our water.

Craigpump · Mar 23, 2014

Water Worker.

That tank probably won't last 7-8 years.

Sure it's made by Amtrol and has the same shell as a Well X Trol but it has a significantly weaker diaphram, probably the same one that is used in the WP series and they fail all the time.

Why not spend a little more money and install a tank that will last 3x as long?

We use a transfer pump to pull the water out tanks. A lot of times the pump will pull the water through the split in the diaphram when air wont push it through. You may also find yourself putting a big enough hole in the dome so that you can use a shop vac to get the water out.

LLigetfa · Mar 23, 2014

mihomeowner said:
We have a lot of iron in our water.

Cut you tank open after you get it out and look to see how much iron buildup is inside it. The iron can precipitate and built up inside the tank.

Valveman · Mar 23, 2014

Even a cheaply built tank will last longer if you don’t cycle the pump on/off too much. Every time the pump cycles on and off the bladder bends back and forth like bending a wire until it breaks. Then instead of having a 62 gallon tank busted and waterlogged weighing 515 pounds to empty or drag out of the crawl space, now you have an 80 gallon tank busted and weighing 666 pounds to get rid of.

A CSV would work fine with the large tank, eliminate the repetitive cycling, and make that tank last 3 times longer than it normally would. But with a CSV you would not have needed any larger than a 4.5 gallon size tank to start with. Then IF the 4.5 gallon size tank ever busted, it would cost MUCH less and only weigh 38 pounds to haul outside.

When we don’t figure out what causes problems, we are doomed to repeat them.

Water Tank Bladder issues

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