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Thread: Hot water only in new house

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member ou1954's Avatar
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    Cool Hot water only in new house

    I have three single handle faucets in this house. The one for the shower works fine. The one for the jacuzzi worked fine when the home was built in 2007 but is now very clogged.


    The third one serves a tub/shower has only given hot water since the house was built. I'm hoping the problem is a cartridge installed upside down but when I get a look at the pex feeding it both feed lines are white and I know the standard in this development is blue for cold and white for hot. We have been able to get along without using it or by adding cold water with a bucket, not fun for guests.


    If I send pictures of the valve can you tell me the brand and model number? I can see two adjustment screws, one on each sice, and can see that the cartridge is held inby a clip. There is also an adjustment screw on the handle unit.

    Where should I send the pictures?
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  2. #2
    Plumber jimbo's Avatar
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    "clip" suggests Moen, but I don't see the clip in the photo.( Does the cap sleeve just slide off??) The piece on the end of the stem is a hot limiter. If your water is very hot, it prevents you from actually turning the shower temp up to full hot ( scalding). The screws on the left and right are NOT adjustments....they are shut-off valves so you can turn off the water to service the valve. They must BOTH be fully open for proper operation of the pressure balance mechanism.

    Describe exactly what happens....when you turn it on slightly, to the blue area on the plate...is it HOT?? or NO water?? What happens as you turn it further CCW?? If it is in fact a Moen Positemp, it is reversible for reversed hot and cold inlets.

  3. #3
    Plumbing Contractor for 49 years johnjh2o1's Avatar
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    It's Delta.

    John

  4. #4
    DIY Junior Member ou1954's Avatar
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    Default Delta or Moen.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnjh2o1 View Post
    It's Delta.

    John
    Thanks Jimbo and John-

    Everything the house is indeed Delta but the bath sinks are two handle but same style as shower and tub. The kitchen has the handle style that lifts up and then L/R for temp.

    In any case I would take a guess that if the the right side screw on the body is a shutoff maybe it is simply turned closed. I'll try that before I put the trim parts and handle back on. I thought it was some sort of limiter.

    Jimbo, there is a clip but it is blended in with the background in the flash pictures. All the trim parts slide off after you remove the handle and it's trim (One trim cap and screw), then two long screws for the big trim piece.

    I would really hate to find that the wrong PEX feed lines come up, hope that's not the case.

    Anyhow, if this works I will have a look to find out what is clogging the jacuzzi which wasn't used for a year or more. I just don't want to find myself with the core pulled out and no way to get it back, however if it's like the shower/tub in question, the shut off valves should work.

  5. #5
    DIY Junior Member ou1954's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    "clip" suggests Moen, but I don't see the clip in the photo.( Does the cap sleeve just slide off??) The piece on the end of the stem is a hot limiter. If your water is very hot, it prevents you from actually turning the shower temp up to full hot ( scalding). The screws on the left and right are NOT adjustments....they are shut-off valves so you can turn off the water to service the valve. They must BOTH be fully open for proper operation of the pressure balance mechanism.

    Describe exactly what happens....when you turn it on slightly, to the blue area on the plate...is it HOT?? or NO water?? What happens as you turn it further CCW?? If it is in fact a Moen Positemp, it is reversible for reversed hot and cold inlets.
    Hot hot hot from the start. I will try opening the screw on the right side that could be closed. I haven't touched it because I thought it was an adjustment.

  6. #6
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Are all the PEX lines home-run to a manifold? If so, they should be labelled and you should be able to figure out what goes where.

  7. #7
    DIY Junior Member ou1954's Avatar
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    O.K., here's the deal-

    The clip I mentioned is only holding the turn limiter. My error in description. The valve itself is clearly opened by un-screwing the front half of the body with the flats on it.

    The left side screw clearly controls hot water because I can use it to turn off hot. The right side screw must be cold shutoff, but when I shut off the hot and then back off that screw there is no cold water. Based on my experience with the jacuzzi valve getting clogged with no use, I would guess there is a clog in the cold water path. I opened that cold shutoff quite a bit but don't know whether it might come all the way out and I would be in big trouble here. It sort of looks like the nuts around those screws keep them from coming all the way out.

    Is it safe to tighten both screws and then take out the body? I see many posts about taking out the core and feeling for clogs. If that's the case I will try it, and then next restore the jacuzzi which is down to a trickle, both hot and cold settings.

    And Jimbo, does my correction about the clip you didn't see make it a Delta in your mind?

  8. #8
    DIY Junior Member ou1954's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLigetfa View Post
    Are all the PEX lines home-run to a manifold? If so, they should be labelled and you should be able to figure out what goes where.
    I would have preferred "Home Run" PEX but the house was built between my survey visit here and our purchase and move here. From looking at homes built later by the same builder it's clear that the water lines are buried in the sand under the slab and more or less daisy chained. We never tested the tub valve before the builder, who did relatively good work, went bankrupt.

    Thus, no manifold.

  9. #9
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    All modern shower valves have some sort of anti-scald technology in them. If it's working properly, with the hot supply shut off, and only cold, it normally wouldn't output any water. Should be the same with the hot, but if the spool valve (the more typical way they do anti-scald) is stuck at one end, it might do what you're seeing. If those in-line shutoffs are working, yes, you should be able to turn them off then pull the cartridge. WOrst case, have someone ready to shut the main valve off if they no longer work right. Those shutoffs should be fully opened. Some are a 1/4-turn, but I think those are multi-turn and should stop at each end.
    Jim DeBruycker
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  10. #10
    DIY Junior Member ou1954's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    All modern shower valves have some sort of anti-scald technology in them. If it's working properly, with the hot supply shut off, and only cold, it normally wouldn't output any water. Should be the same with the hot, but if the spool valve (the more typical way they do anti-scald) is stuck at one end, it might do what you're seeing. If those in-line shutoffs are working, yes, you should be able to turn them off then pull the cartridge. WOrst case, have someone ready to shut the main valve off if they no longer work right. Those shutoffs should be fully opened. Some are a 1/4-turn, but I think those are multi-turn and should stop at each end.
    Clearly multi-turn so 3-4 turns should supply some cold water.

    You can see what looks like two gaskets in the valve body. Check picture #2. It looks like the flats are intended to unscrew the front of the assembly, not sure what happens next.

    Where is the scald limiter?

    Why are there those two "gaskets" in the valve body. If I unscrew the front using those two flats, will only the front part come off or will both pieces come off as a unit?

    Our main shutoff is in a closet and the outside hose bibs have an 18" setback to the valve itself. I'm saying it's cold here-

    It would really be helpful if I could find a Delta assembly drawing. I am 80 years old now and still repair the cars. Retired aerospace engineer and physicist, but I like to know where I'm heading so I don't have to shut off the water and have an emergency plumber visit.

    Let me clarify. Hot works fine now. No cold however I set things. Must be a clog or a stuck limiter as someone said.
    Last edited by ou1954; 01-10-2013 at 07:41 PM. Reason: mis spelled word

  11. #11
    Plumbing Contractor for 49 years johnjh2o1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    All modern shower valves have some sort of anti-scald technology in them. If it's working properly, with the hot supply shut off, and only cold, it normally wouldn't output any water. Should be the same with the hot, but if the spool valve (the more typical way they do anti-scald) is stuck at one end, it might do what you're seeing. If those in-line shutoffs are working, yes, you should be able to turn them off then pull the cartridge. WOrst case, have someone ready to shut the main valve off if they no longer work right. Those shutoffs should be fully opened. Some are a 1/4-turn, but I think those are multi-turn and should stop at each end.
    That is not a balance pressure faucet. It is anti scald that is controlled by the stop on the stem.

    John

  12. #12
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    All modern valves have a limiter in addition to some other anti-scald technology, either a pressure balanced valve or thermostatically controlled or both. Some of them have that control inside the cartridge, some have a separate spool valve. If the model can be determined, the manufacturers typically have instructions and parts breakdowns on their website. Just a limiter would have no effect on a loss of pressure like when someone flushes the toilet. If the house is plumbed well, it isn't a particularly big problem, but the regs require it.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

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    DIY Junior Member ou1954's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    All modern valves have a limiter in addition to some other anti-scald technology, either a pressure balanced valve or thermostatically controlled or both. Some of them have that control inside the cartridge, some have a separate spool valve. If the model can be determined, the manufacturers typically have instructions and parts breakdowns on their website. Just a limiter would have no effect on a loss of pressure like when someone flushes the toilet. If the house is plumbed well, it isn't a particularly big problem, but the regs require it.
    Thanks- I have done a lot of searching on the web but can't find the model nunber. Maybe someone on this blog will recognize it. I will take the picture to Home Depot tomorrow but they have a lot of turnover in the plumbing dept. There is an old-style plumbing supply house near here and I will try them. I want to know that parts are available before I open the valve body.

    Thanks again to everyone-

  14. #14
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    IT is a Delta valve in the 600 series. It is NOT pressure balanced and if it were installed "upside down" all that would happen would be that the hot and cold would be reversed. It would have to be a very incompetent plumber who would connect hot water to both sides of the valve, regardless of the tubing color. Turn off the left hand integral stop, make sure the right one is open, then turn on the faucet to see what kind of water you get. IF it has been like this since the house was built, you must be a very "patient and forgiving" person to have NOT called the installer back to fix it.
    Last edited by hj; 01-11-2013 at 06:17 AM.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

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    DIY Junior Member plumber66's Avatar
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    sure looks like the stop screw on the cold side of the valve is closed if this isnt it shut off the stops to both sides of the valve and take the cartridge out. put a bucket in front of the open valve and open the c.w. stop if you get water then you can try the h.w. side if it looks like the same amount of water then the problem is in the cartridge install

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