Did my contractor screw up? how to fix?

pocoloco · Oct 28, 2011

Really in need of some advice here. For our kitchen remodel the contractors installed all new plumbing including a new drain pipe to the waste stack. Today as they were hooking up the sink drains, disposal, etc... I noticed the drain was higher than it should be.

I'm thinking this is an issue as water will pool in the pipes and not completely drain. Assuming this is a problem how can I remedy? Going into the walls again to redo the drain is not an option. However, I have a very accessible crawlspace under the kitchen. So, is an option to add a T after the trap. The current drain would stay connected and act as the vent. The other opening of the T would go straight down into my crawlspace and tap into the same sewer line just at a lower position.

Screen shot 2011-10-28 at 11.36.06 PM.png

Any help would be very appreciated.

LLigetfa · Oct 28, 2011

pocoloco said:
The current drain would stay connected and act as the vent.

A vent cannot go horizontal until it is 6 inches above the flood level (rim) of the sink.

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

Nukeman · Oct 28, 2011

Two options to fix:

- move the connection in the wall
- use a shallower sink

The sink change may not even do it unless you have a very deep sink. By the looks of it, they set it way too high. From the angle of the pic, it looks higher than the disposal outlet, so all of that piping (and the disposal) will have water in it at all times. They messed up and should fix it for you. Although, it may be difficult at this stage.

pocoloco · Oct 28, 2011

LLigetfa said:
A vent cannot go horizontal until it is 6 inches above the flood level (rim) of the sink.

Thanks for the reply.

I'm not sure I understand. Currently, even if the drain pipe was at the correct height, the pipe would be horizontal to the stack and not be 6 inches above rim of the sink. Does that mean I have no stack currently?

Edit... I think I understand this point.

pocoloco · Oct 28, 2011

nukeman said:
Two options to fix:

- move the connection in the wall
- use a shallower sink

The sink change may not even do it unless you have a very deep sink. By the looks of it, they set it way too high. From the angle of the pic, it looks higher than the disposal outlet, so all of that piping (and the disposal) will have water in it at all times. They messed up and should fix it for you. Although, it may be difficult at this stage.

Thanks for replying. I really am trying to avoid going into the walls because everything was just done. argh. What are the consequences of just leaving it as is? Did my proposed solution diagram not get the job done?

pocoloco · Oct 28, 2011

So looking at my diagram again, if I just cap off the original drain (not use as vent) and just connect that drain to the stack (in blue), isn't it then still vented since I'm tapping into the stack, just at a lower position?

Nukeman · Oct 28, 2011

Blue line is no good. It creates an S-trap and effictively isn't vented.

Jerome2877 · Oct 28, 2011

How about removing the garburator and installing as shallow a basket strainer you can find. Relocate the Dishwasher Y to the horizontal between the 2 sinks. I can't tell from the pic if this would work but it would be close.

pocoloco · Oct 28, 2011

Ok, grasping for straws here. I realize none may be kosher or code but which is the lesser evil:

1. Keep existing drain as "vent" and take the new drain to sewer line in crawl space
2. Cap off the existing drain and take the new drain to sewer line in crawl space
3. Probably scoff at this one (see below) but take the drain straight down to crawlspace and put the trap there before tapping into sewer.

Leejosepho · Oct 29, 2011

pocoloco said:
3. Probably scoff at this one (see below) but take the drain straight down to crawlspace and put the trap there before tapping into sewer.

I think you will find the code requires the trap to be under the sink, not the floor.

You really should have the contractor come back and make the proper repair by lowering the drain connection, and I say that as a DIYer who believes contractors should be held accountable.

Tom Sawyer · Oct 29, 2011

No trap under the floor because code limits the length of the vertical drop to the trap. There are only two ways to fix this. One is to open the wall back up and move the san tee down where it belongs. The other is to abandon the whole mess, drop through the floor and use an AAV at the sink.

The big question though is that if a "contractor" just did the work then where were the inspections both rough and final? and furthermore why not call the "contractor" back and make him fix his mistake? After all, you paid good money to have the work done.

Jimbo · Oct 29, 2011

Let me get on my soap box here, because this general issue came up on another thread this morning. What you SHOULD have done is called in the plumber BEFORE you purchased the giant new sink, to plan out the job. He could have lowered the pipe in the wall when access was better. That is still the right thing to do, but much harder now.

Your options are not good.. Leaving as is, you will have slow draining sink and disposer. Both the S trap and the deep trap you have proposed will not meet code.

Gary in NJ · Oct 29, 2011

leejosepho said:
You really should have the contractor come back and make the proper repair by lowering the drain connection, and I say that as a DIYer who believes contractors should be held accountable.

There's the only correct answer. The wall has to be opened.

LLigetfa · Oct 29, 2011

What is on the other side of the wall? Would it be easier to open it from the other side?

hj · Oct 29, 2011

You can run a new drain line connection in the basement, BUT the line under the tee in the wall has to be capped so it cannot become an "alternate" drain line. The "vent" would connect right at the wall so the "horizontal" portion would be negligible. But, when I say "YOU", I mean the contractor because it is his "screwup". The way it is now the disposer will ALWAYS have water standing in it, and when the disposer is turned on it will vibrate until it pumps the water out. OBVIOUSLY, you CANNOT change to a shallower sink because that one appears to be integral with the countertop, or made from some similar material. As an aside, I, and "millions" of others in this area, have disposers AND septic tanks and they coexist without any problems.

pocoloco · Oct 29, 2011

LLigetfa said:
What is on the other side of the wall? Would it be easier to open it from the other side?

It's an exterior brick wall so that won't work.

pocoloco · Oct 29, 2011

jimbo said:
Let me get on my soap box here, because this general issue came up on another thread this morning. What you SHOULD have done is called in the plumber BEFORE you purchased the giant new sink, to plan out the job. He could have lowered the pipe in the wall when access was better. That is still the right thing to do, but much harder now.

I already had my sink and disposal before he even started the job which he saw, so it's completely on him.

To be clear, the contractor hasn't left yet (haven't paid him the other 50%) and I called him out on it. He wants to work it out and we are exploring options. I'm posting here because I trust you guys a lot more than him and seeing if there are any other viable options. Cutting into the wall and cabinet, disturbing insulation, framing, etc. is what I'm trying to avoid IF I CAN. We very well may just go into the wall and do it right but just thinking out loud here. I appreciate everyone chiming in, I really do. You guys are awesome.

pocoloco · Oct 29, 2011

Tom Sawyer said:
There are only two ways to fix this. One is to open the wall back up and move the san tee down where it belongs. The other is to abandon the whole mess, drop through the floor and use an AAV at the sink.

If we go the AAV route, would it work like this?

Did I create an S trap or does the AAV no longer make it an S trap? The AAV is still below the drain and I thought I read that's not good.

pocoloco · Oct 29, 2011

hj said:
You can run a new drain line connection in the basement, BUT the line under the tee in the wall has to be capped so it cannot become an "alternate" drain line. The "vent" would connect right at the wall so the "horizontal" portion would be negligible.

I've read this ten times and I still don't get it. would you be so nice as to elaborate? Thanks

pocoloco · Oct 29, 2011

Jerome2877 said:
How about removing the garburator and installing as shallow a basket strainer you can find. Relocate the Dishwasher Y to the horizontal between the 2 sinks. I can't tell from the pic if this would work but it would be close.

I'm considering this option as well. Remove disposal (don't really use it anyways) plus shallow baskets. Does the dishwasher Y have to be above the drain line since the drain line is attached at the way top of cabinet?

Did my contractor screw up? how to fix?

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