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Thread: well water treatment? Please help.

  1. #61
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    I have a number of brand names availabile and all require annual lamp replacement because the lamps are rated at 9000 continuous hours of operation. The price of of a lamp depends on the brand of the light but... usually about $70-$100 plus freight. A UV light also provides bacteria free water.

    There are a number of options on lights and all add to the price of the light. Lights are gpm rated, the higher the gpm rating the higher the price. All lights are flow controlled so the sizing is critical.

    All UV lights have minimum water quality requirements that must be met.
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  2. #62
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxBlack
    Many thanks Bob for your informative post. I was looking at a friend's UV system just yesterday, and was wondering why he had a filter/carbon filter combo AHEAD OF his UV mechanism, and now I understand. At least, I'm assuming that the company he bought the pump/filter/UV board from (pre-assembled) knew what they were doing!
    Not all UV 'kills' cypto and giardia, only class A lights do.

    And all carbon comes with a warning of it not to be installed on water of unknown microbiological content. Here they installed carbon on water know contain bacteria...
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  3. #63
    DIY scratch-pad engineer leejosepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser
    A UV light also provides bacteria free water.

    There are a number of options on lights and all add to the price of the light. Lights are gpm rated, the higher the gpm rating the higher the price. All lights are flow controlled so the sizing is critical.

    All UV lights have minimum water quality requirements that must be met.
    What would happen if I put a UV light in a recirculation line going back into my IRB-infected well? My guess is that the effect would be minimal since the returned water would again be exposed to the IRB.

  4. #64
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    You can't use UV on IRB etc. because when the cell dies, iron is introduced back into the water and that will preclude the light from 'working' by coating the quartz sleeve which prevents light from passing through it into the water. Which prevents any 'killing'. Actually UV doesn't kill any bacteria, it prevents reproduction.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  5. #65
    DIY scratch-pad engineer leejosepho's Avatar
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    A professional water-treatment guy has just suggested occasional doses of food-grade hydrogen peroxide to address the IRB in my well, and this is the beginning of my investigation into that approach.

    Does anybody here have any related info or experience?

  6. #66
    DIY Member MaxBlack's Avatar
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    I'll say only lee that I researched H2O2 myself a couple years ago with the idea of using it in our storage tank (as a disinfectant and "rotten egg smell" remover) and ended-up not using it. Bought a bottle and man, it's potent stuff to be sure. Still have it under refrigeration somewhere (!). Prolly in the back of the beer fridge!

    For my purposes anyway, I decided that it was way too difficult to determine how-and-when-to-add-how-much and then to my knowledge there's no way to test for it. At least I can test for chlorine!

    Here's the cheapest I could find:

    http://www.dfwx.com/h2o2products.html

  7. #67
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    I'm hearing from water treatment guys that have used peroxide and they say it doesn't work well on reduciing types of bacteria, especially IRB.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  8. #68
    DIY scratch-pad engineer leejosepho's Avatar
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    So far, I have found nothing substantial to suggest otherwise. Also, I suspect its oxidization effect might do damage similar to that of ozone?

  9. #69
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Ozone doesn't cause corrosion because we use in it plastics and vent any 'excess' out of the water. I've not heard of any corrosion by peroxide either, it's by-product is water.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  10. #70
    Like an engineer alternety's Avatar
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    What is the size of the smallest microorganisms that need to be filtered?

    Bacteria/protozoa etc. and virus's.

  11. #71
    In the Trades Bob NH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alternety
    What is the size of the smallest microorganisms that need to be filtered?

    Bacteria/protozoa etc. and virus's.
    Viruses can't be removed by filters. They must be killed.

    Filtering bacteria is a marginal proposition. The usual solution is to kill them with disinfectant but some, such as Legionella, form in places where they are protected from disinfectants and are difficult to get rid of. You need to filter to clear out the solids so that disinfectant or UV can be effective. It is customary to maintain a disinfectant residual to protect against recontamination.

    Protozoa and organisms such as cryptosporidium are more difficult to kill with disinfectants. They can be neutralized with UV, and enough chlorine with long enough exposure will kill Giardia.

    Crypto is hard to kill with chlorine as Milwaukee and Seneca Lake State Park discovered. More than 20 deaths in Milwaukee in the early 90's when the filters got out of control, and more than 2000 cases of crypto at Seneca Lake State Park in 2005. The Seneca Lake case is getting a lot of Google hits for class action lawsuits.

    The standard treatment for surface waters and systems affected by surface waters (such as springs and shallow or dug wells) is filtration AND disinfection, including a disinfectant residual to the point of use.

    POSTSCRIPT:
    It is not customary to test the water for Giardia or similar organisms, because they may be present at times and maybe not at another time. If you have a water supply that can be contaminated by surface water (anything but a deep well) the usual practice is to treat it to be safe.

    If it is your own well, you may of course do what you want, but if it is a public water supply you must comply with the EPA Surface Water Treatment Rule.

    This is not a forum where people running public water supplies are likely to come for answers. Individuals can balance the risks and decide what they want to do.

    If I were getting my water supply from a spring, or a shallow well subject to infiltration of surface water, I would filter and disinfect it.
    Last edited by Bob NH; 04-07-2007 at 11:13 AM.

  12. #72
    Like an engineer alternety's Avatar
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    I did some poking around. What I found said bacteria are above .2 microns, protozoa (and cycts) above 1 micron, and viriuses above .018 microns.

    Does that sound right?

  13. #73
    DIY scratch-pad engineer leejosepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser
    Ozone doesn't cause corrosion because we use in it plastics and vent any 'excess' out of the water. I've not heard of any corrosion by peroxide either, it's by-product is water.
    I am still trying to decide how to clean/treat my actual well and the water still in it before bringing it into the house, and I had been wondering whether hydrogen peroxide would belong in this category:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser
    AFAIK there is no way to introduce ozone into a well and if there were, it probably would harm drop pipe, pumps etc. as chalorine pellet droppers can.
    Quote Originally Posted by speedbump
    Gary is correct about putting o-zone into the well. I have a very good customer. A fish farmer who was talked into putting o-zone down his well by means of a 1/4" plastic tube. They injected it right on top of the pump. Well after the pump fell off the pipe and the pipe was full of holes, hot to mention what damage was done to the casing, he removed it. Of course, we had to fish all this half eaten stuff from his well. Same goes with dropping chlorine tablets down a well. Just don't do it, is the best advice I have.
    As soon as I can get all the various thoughts, advice and other pieces of information gathered for some comprehensive considerations, I am sure an overall plan will come to mind!

  14. #74
    In the Trades Bob NH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alternety
    I did some poking around. What I found said bacteria are above .2 microns, protozoa (and cycts) above 1 micron, and viriuses above .018 microns.

    Does that sound right?
    Cryptosporidium is about 3 microns, giardia about 5 (maybe a little bigger).

    Bacteria and viruses are so small that it doesn't matter to me.

    I install treatment systems for small public water supplies. I use the tightest cotton wound cartridges that I can get, followed by 1 micron absolute filters (Poly-pleat PP-BB-20-1) from Harmsco to treat surface water supplies, and always use chlorine from bleach at about 1mg per liter.

    I have never had a report of anyone getting sick from treated water from my systems. After I installed the first one more than 10 years ago the camp director told me that they noticed fewer kids going to the infirmary. They had been using lake water, chlorinated only.

  15. #75
    DIY Member MaxBlack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob NH
    ...I use the tightest cotton wound cartridges that I can get, followed by 1 micron absolute filters (Poly-pleat PP-BB-20-1) from Harmsco to treat surface water supplies, and always use chlorine from bleach at about 1mg per liter.

    I have never had a report of anyone getting sick from treated water from my systems...
    Bob NH you gave us a rundown on your filtration systems awhile back but I cannot for the life of me find it. Do you remember where you made that post, or maybe you can tell us again here OTTOYH? Thanks.

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