Myers Pump Performance

Can I get any opinions, pro/cons or longevity experience with this particular pump?
I installed one at 100' in a 120' deep well. Pump is working great, good recovery time, 20+ gpm. I was curious about the pumps lifetime performance.
Thank you
Jeff


http://store.waterpumpsupply.com/20gpmsubwelp.html

The Myers Renegade is as good as anyone elses pump these days. Since Pentair owns Myers, Aermotor, Sta-Rite, Berkley and who knows how many other pump companies, you will be hard pressed to tell the difference. The big problem is with the motor. Pentair and ITT who owns the rest of the big names are jointly making a new motor. It will be on that Renegade. The pump I sell still uses Franklin motors who used to be on all pumps until this year. For my money, I'll stay with the Franklin. When the Pentec motor is proven to be reliable after 10 years or so, then we'll see.

bob...

Thanks speedbump,
The model pump I have is the Rustler if that makes a difference.

What is the expected service life of a pump like this, say that my water quality is good, I have no or very little iron, typ. Fl sulfer content & so far, no major sediment intrusion.

Does your experience tell you that the motor goes before the pump?
Would a Franklin motor fit on this pump if I ever need to replace it.

I'm thinkin at 400.00 bucks I'll buy a spare and service the bad pump if needed.

Thanks for your insight

All Submersibles are designed to last an average of 7 years. Of course that means that some will last 14 years and others only 2 years. They are built to survive about 180,000 on and off cycles. The sooner you use up these 180,000 cycles, the sooner your pump/motor will be destroyed. Do not buy a spare motor yet as they will go bad just sitting on the shelf for a couple of years. They are filled with water and the water will evaporate through the casing when left sitting around for a while. So the spare motor won't last long when you install it because it is low on fluid and will heat up and lock down quickly. The motors are sealed so there is no good way to add fluid before installing. Buy a fresh motor when the time comes. Eliminate excess cycling and you might get 20 years form this pump. Eliminating cycling means using about 4 times as many tanks as recommended or using a Cycle Stop Valve with a small or standard size tank.

Great info Valveman,

The recovery of this pump is quick and that may be the only down fall of the system I built. I am considering installing another bladder tank to cut the pump cycling down as well as a 2nd holding tank. Right now the 2nd pump installed in the aerator doesn't start even after I flush a toilet 6 or 7 times. I'm very satisfied with the systems peformance so far.

A CSV will most definetly be installed on the irrigation side of the system.
My plan will be to size/design the zones accordingly to max out the gpm the pump can deliver at +/- 55psi. The intent is to have the pump run continiuosly when the irrigation is on. I plan to irrigate areas of a 2 1/2 acre site with Hunter sports field rotors where I can. I hope to reduce piping costs & static line pressure. This is still only a plan lol.

If this pump is used for house use and irrigation, the CSV is installed after the pump and all water for house and irrigation is controlled by the CSV, not just irrigation flow. If you max out the pump on the irrigation system, you will need to run the irrigation only at off peak times such as 1 AM to 5AM. Otherwise when the irrigation system is running you won't have any water or pressure left for the house. You can run your irrigation for a little longer period of time and design the sprinklers to use all but 5 GPM that the pump will produce. The Cycles Stop Valve will make the put out put match whatever you design the sprinklers to do so the pump won't cycle. Then you have enough water and pressure left for the house. You can run the irrigation anytime of day or night and still take a shower at the same time.

I meant Rustler. I always got Renegade and Rustler mixed up. Renegade is made by Red Jacket who is owned by ITT.

Is that $413.00 including the control box. If not, my pricing is better than his.

Where are you in Florida? I'm near Tampa and we have areas that are bad with sulphur and others that have none.

Are you injecting chlorine into that aerator?

bob...

Valveman,

I have 2 pumps, 1 in the well that will fill the storage tank & supply water for the irrigation.

The 2nd pump, hanging in the storage tank supplies water only to the house.

The 1st pump in the well will directly feed water to the irrgation system when needed, if the storage tank needs water, a float switch opens a solenoid valve and fills the tank. Right now, it takes maybe 2 minutes to replenish water in the storage tank. I guess I'll have to consider that flow when designing the irrigation so I don't get a major drop in pressure. I planned to install the CSV at the irrigation supply line. The CSV will see 60psi on the input side.

If your well is strong enough to irrigate from directly, then why do you have a storage tank and booster pump? And if your storage tank can be refilled in 2 minutes with a 20 GPM pump, is that only a 40 gallon storage tank? If you are going to irrigate dirrectly from the well and use stored water for the house, I don't think you need a CSV, just use a pump start relay to over ride the float switch.

Valveman
I do not have a booster pump.

System is designed with 2 submersible pumps.
1 in the well that brings water to a holding/aerator tank to reduce sulfer smell, & provide water to the irrigation system.

The 2nd submersible pump hanging in the aerator supplies water to the house only. Here are my reasons for this set up.

In Florida this is a typical installation setup. I get water airafied for reduction of sulfer smell. Having the 2nd pump in the aerator also makes the system virtually silent.
I could still adjust the float switch to open the valve with the water level in the tank lower so that the storage recharge would run longer. The storage tank is about 250-300gal but the draw point is about 1' above the bottom of the tank. I don't want the pump to suck air.

Speedbump
If I remember that did include the control box.

I'm down here in Punta Gorda about 100 miles south of you and yes the sulpher odor is bad but not as bad as the last house I lived in. The well has no iron which made me happy.

I do want to install a chemical feed pump/injector to the aerator to control bacteria but have been unable to make a decision on which one. I think I reached the end of the internet looking for one lol. The feed pump from your site looks like the best one so far.

Can you give me some more detailed info on it?
My main concern is being able to adjust the chemical feed rate as accurately as possible. The water softener does have carbon filtration according to the manual and drinking water/ice maker line gets fed from the RO unit in the garage.
BTW I purchased my pumps 2 years ago and their price has gone up since then but it's good to know you supply them fairly local to me.

Punta Gorda. I hope you didn't get blown away a few years ago. I have friend who lives there and Charlie storm just missed him.

As far as setting up the feed pump, it has a knob for making adjustments in the size of the stroke. The main adjustment is mixing the right amount of Chlorine with water. We usually start off with 3 to 1 water to chlorine.

I have had very good luck with the LMI that we sell. It holds up far better than the Kem Tech ever did. There are other units out there too, but I like this one best.

I would rather use air to get rid of the sulphur than chlorine. Our Sulphur Removal System does this under pressure so you don't need the chlorine. And you don't need another pump.

bob...

Thanks Bob,
I did look at that system and its a bit out of my price range. I think the feed pump is the way I will go. With a family of 4 how much chlorine would I expect to use say per week/month or how often would the solution tank need to be filled?

I did take all of your experts advise on the forum with regards to installing a DE filter I have. Seems that I don't have a sediment problem that I have at my previous house. Water entering the aerator tank is really clear.

Hurricane Charley passed directly over the house I was renting. I didn't board up a single window. We rode the storm out at my brothers place in Port Charlotte. When I drove back to the house in PG, the destruction I witnessed was like nothing I have ever seen before. You would have thought a nuclear bomb wnet off.
My heart was in my stomach as I went down the road, just thinking about all of my familys belongings ruined. When we got to the house, thank God all was intact. No broken windows, no roof missing, no water damage, even the window screens and back porch screens were still intact. It was unbelievable.
Thanks
Jeff

OK Now I understand, sulfur smell in the water. As long as your aerator tank is large enough to supply water to the house for a while, you could irrigate right off the well pump, if your well is strong enough. Could use a solenoid valve on the line going into the aerator tank and another off the well to the irrigation. A pump start relay on the irrigation controller can over ride the float switch and start the pump. An additional rely also wired into the pump start relay can open the solenoid to the irrigation and close the solenoid to the aerator tank. You will have to put out enough sprinklers to keep the pump pressure from getting too high. If you can't put out this many sprinklers because the well will not supply enough water, you can use a pressure reducing valve after the solenoid to the irrigation. The pressure reducer will lower the pressure and you can run a smaller number of sprinklers so the well can keep up. Although you have a submersible in the aerator tank, it is still considered a booster pump. Since this pump supplies only the house, if you have a large enough pressure tank to limit the cycling, you don't need a Cycle Stop Valve there either. Although using a CSV and a small pressure tank will deliver "constant pressure" to the house, instead of it constantly changing from 60 to 40 then 40 to 60 while you are taking a shower.

Valveman you are correct although I am controlling water to sources in a much simpler fashion.

Pump in well is controlled by pressure switch w/bladder tank.
Irrigation on same source is controlled by zone valves which are under pressure.
Water demand to aerator tank is controlled via float switch to soleniod valve.
I was not real fond of controlling a 240v pump with a 120v rated float switch & with the addition of the future irrigation, it made more sense to control the source destinations separately. Breaking only 1 leg of a 240v pump at the pressure switch did not sit well with me. I ran my electrical feeds to the pressure switch/to pump control panels/to pumps. When pressure drops from any 1 demand, pressure switch energizes pumps and breaks both hot legs when demand is met.

Water to house is controlled via pressure switch w/bladder tank and is the single source supplied from aerator tank.

I am very happy with the out come of my labors but will look for help when adding the irrigation. The plan for irrigation is to run a 1 1/2'' main line with a loop or actually feed the main from both sides. Then branch off my smaller laterals and size as nessesary. My irrigation contractor friend said they don't size any pipe larger then 1 1/4'' on a standard 80'x120' lot here in my area for main line.
I stubbed out and 1 1/2'' main and can always change it. I may be limited on where I can irrigate on 2 1/2 ac. but will cross that bridge when I get there.
Again thanks for everyones wisdom.

Then you do need a CSV on the well pump unless you can match every sprinkler zone to the pump and you never use garden hoses for any length of time. You could also design your sprinkler zones to about 10 GPM and limit the flow into the aerator to 10 GPM. Then with a CSV you could be using either or both at the same time. Otherwise when you are irrigating with 20 GPM, there is no water left to fill the aerator tank if needed.

valveman said:

Then you do need a CSV on the well pump unless you can match every sprinkler zone to the pump and you never use garden hoses for any length of time. You could also design your sprinkler zones to about 10 GPM and limit the flow into the aerator to 10 GPM. Then with a CSV you could be using either or both at the same time. Otherwise when you are irrigating with 20 GPM, there is no water left to fill the aerator tank if needed.

Click to expand...

It may very well work out that that way. I'll do most of my irrigating during off peak hours. Even the county water restrictions state to water at night.
I'll have maybe 2 zones that will have long throw rotors to cover grassy areas and even 1 of those areas is my septic drain field. All the other zones will be mister/sprayer type heads or drip lines due to that fact that the lot is heavily wooded. Using a CSV to achive the most efficent system will be thoroughly investigated.

The best place for a submersible motor is in the well. Upright position, constant temperature, surrounded by water. Laying on it's side in a barn, it can leak through the seal, temperature changes will cause expansion and contraction, fluid can evaporate through the skin of the motor. It only has to leak or evaporate a spoon full of fluid because when installed in the upright position, the bushing and seal at the top now have no cooling or lubrication, so it won't last very long. If I have a motor on the shelf for a couple of years, I will take it to a Franklin motor repair shop and have the fluid checked and date code updated before I install it. I have had 6" motors laying on the shelf for 4 or 5 years and they take about a cup of water to top them off before use. Wranglers, Rustlers, Renegades, Titans, Sand Handlers, J-Class, Aqua Duty, and so on are all plastic impeller pumps without a nickels worth of difference between them. There are lots of All Stainless Steel pumps out there that are different. Not that the SS pumps are any better because they now make the SS impellers so thin that the plastic ones may last longer. However, SS impellers are locked to the shaft (fixed stack) while most plastic impellers are not attached to the shaft (floating stack). Fixed stack impellers designs have less surfaces touching each other and have better horse power characteristics at the lower flow rates.

You could have used a couple of relays with those floats and made the control circuit 24 volt for safety's sake. It's an easy hook up. The pressure switch is still needed for the booster pump but not for filling of the large tank. But then there is the irrigation system that puts a whole new kink in the armor.

If I were you, I would really look at the CSV for that irrigation system. From your explaination of the way it's going to be configured, your going to have different zones using differing amounts of water. The CSV will save your motor.

bob...

speedbump said:

You could have used a couple of relays with those floats and made the control circuit 24 volt for safety's sake. It's an easy hook up. The pressure switch is still needed for the booster pump but not for filling of the large tank. But then there is the irrigation system that puts a whole new kink in the armor.

If I were you, I would really look at the CSV for that irrigation system. From your explaination of the way it's going to be configured, your going to have different zones using differing amounts of water. The CSV will save your motor.

bob...

Click to expand...

Bob,
I have 1 float switch that controls the solenoid valve that allows water to enter the aerator tank. It is configured electrically like this: 115v circuit to a J-box which houses a 115v/24v stepdown transformer. The float switch controls the 115v feed to the 24v stepdown transformer. When water is needed in the aerator tank, the float switch energizes the transformer and opens the 24v solenoid valve. The 115v circuit is on a GFCI protected breaker in the panel.

I have a pressure switch on the "booster" pump that serves the house water.

Once I have a schematic design of the irrigation system, I can then make a more informed decision about the CSV on the irrigation system. It may have to include a 2nd smaller bladder tank in parallel with the current one. However I do it, my ultimate goal will be to reduce short cycleing the irrigation pump & try to size the irrigation zones to allow enough gpm+psi to run the irrigation effectively and keep the pump running while irrigating. The ticket may be the CSV. When I know how my better half wants to landscape the yard I can start the design of the irrigation.
Thanks again for your insight.
Jeff

If your ever down this way drop me an email

valveman said:

Laying on it's side in a barn, it can leak through the seal, temperature changes will cause expansion and contraction, fluid can evaporate through the skin of the motor. It only has to leak or evaporate a spoon full of fluid because when installed in the upright position, the bushing and seal at the top now have no cooling or lubrication, so it won't last very long. If I have a motor on the shelf for a couple of years, I will take it to a Franklin motor repair shop and have the fluid checked and date code updated before I install it.

Click to expand...

I would like to question this, and please correct me if Im wrong. I was always taought that the rubber plug in the bottom of a franklin motor was an equalizing valve, and that you could instal one even if it were completely dry. They say that when the motor operates the first time, the heat creates expansion, expelling air, and when the motor stops and cools, it draws in water from the well. Goulds and franklin both taught me that there was no shelf life as such, and I used to buy in bulk, so my pumps were stored for *** amount of time before instal, and have never had a problem. Just wondering what I need to learn that I never knew.