(206) 949-5683, Top Rated Plumber, Seattle
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 83

Thread: Pipes Hammer when pump cuts out

  1. #61
    Previous member sammyhydro11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    709

    Default

    Thank you gary,i totally agree.

    SAM

  2. #62

    Default

    I kinda sorta think you guys got this thing whittled down to a nub. (big problem...lots of debate/discussion...and probably a fifty cent solution).

  3. #63
    Previous member sammyhydro11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    709

    Default

    Randy,
    just curious,what is the 50 cent solution?? We could become millionaires!!I'm pretty good at marketing,you have the idea,and rancher could probably fetch us coffee while we come up with a plan to sell this product! What do you think??

    SAM

  4. #64
    Rancher
    Guest

    Default

    Sammy, Randy said probably a 50 cent solution, but probably not if you have pull the pump and either replace it or add another checkvalve on top of it. Brass spring loaded checks are 5-10 bucks around here. And since you're the newbie with all the correct answers you buy the coffee.

    Rancher

  5. #65
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Lubbock, Texas
    Posts
    4,156

    Default

    Wow! Gone a few days and have to read a book to catch up. To summerize, replaced tank, which I agree was bad, but did not fix problem. Second check at tank would probably stop water hammer on pump shut down but, hydrant would not work, and can cause a vacuum when pump is off. Second check valves usually cause water hammer on pump start up, not pump shut down. Conclusion; Check valve at pump is probably bad, replacing should fix the problem. The draw back is that you have to pull the pump. By the way, what caused the check valve to fail in the first place? Even with a good spring in a good check valve, the valve will only be open according to how much flow is moving through it. The closer the check valve is to the closed position when the pump shuts off, the less water hammer happens. Restricting the flow before the pressure tank with a valve, puts higher back pressure on the pump. Higher back pressure on the pump does not hurt anything. When the pump sees higher back pressure it just thinks it is in a deeper well. Your pipe just has to be strong enough to handle the pressure, the same as it would for a pump in a deeper well. Just check your pumps max pressure to see if your pipe is OK. As the tank is filling at 1 GPM through a CSV, the flow through the check valve is also 1 GPM. At 1 GPM the check valve is only open the width of a piece of paper, regardless of spring in the check being good or bad. When the pressure reaches 60 and the pump shuts off, you will not hear the check valve close or any subsequent water hammer. I suggest installing a CSV before the yard hydrant. If the CSV does not fix the problem, return it for a full refund. However, if the CSV does not stop the water hammer, then your bottom check is really, really bad. The check would have to have loose, broken, or missing parts. Remember when I ask what causes this problem? Like most other items in a pump system, the check valve and the bladder in the tank, where destroyed by repetitive cycling on and off of the pump. This causes the check valve to basically slam itself to death, and the tank bladder to break like repeatedly bending a wire. If it is already too late for the CSV to salvage the last remaining life left in the check valve, it will certainly keep this problem from happening again to a new check valve. The CSV will fix the root of the problem which is cycling. Anything else, including just replacing the check valve, is just a band aid.

  6. #66

    Default

    Aw heck man... if I knew the answer I'd be in the well business rather than a lowly plumber.

  7. #67
    Previous member sammyhydro11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    709

    Default

    You know that vacume issue w/ a check valve at the tank. Wouldn't a csv act the same as a check valve when it closes???

    SAM

  8. #68
    Previous member sammyhydro11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    709

    Default

    I still dont get the fifty cent solution rancher. Check valves for 5 to 10 bucks?? That doesn't sound like 50 cents to me. Rancher needs 2nd grade math. I'll take a small regular old man and i want my change.

    SAM

  9. #69
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Lubbock, Texas
    Posts
    4,156

    Default

    The CSV can never completely close. That's what makes it a CSV.

  10. #70
    Previous member sammyhydro11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    709

    Default

    Thanks valveman,
    i'm still learning about that valve i guess.

    SAM

  11. #71
    vaplumber
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sammyhydro11
    I still dont get the fifty cent solution rancher. Check valves for 5 to 10 bucks?? That doesn't sound like 50 cents to me. Rancher needs 2nd grade math. I'll take a small regular old man and i want my change.

    SAM
    Come on guys! Sam, learn some common english figures of speach! The "50 cent solution" is just a figure of speach for when you spend a fortune in labor to replace a part that costs only a few bucks, and for the new guys, stop taking every thing as an insult. Ive learned a lot from the people on here even after many years in the profession, and I hope to learn a lot more. Many times Ive been wrong, and yes even a little hard headed, but I have learned. Jordan, if nothing else cures the problem check out that check valve. Another suggestion I have recieved, with the pump at that depth, you may not be able to cure the hammer if the pump is hung on poly pipe. Uncap the well, turn on the water and watch to see if the pipes down the well move when the pump stops. Ive always been split half way between using a torque arrestor and not using one, but farther advice from another source tells me that if the well has poly pipe (the black flex pipe) and either no torque arrestor, or improperly installed torque arrestor, and your hammer is a "tink, tink, tink type noise, it could be cause by the torque arrestor issue, and will cause no harm other than the annoying noise.

  12. #72
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Wherever I park the motorhome.
    Posts
    6,790

    Default

    May I suggest that those PMing you be told to post instead? No one else can learn from their wealth of knowledge when they send private messages. Anyway, that's what I tell anyone that PMs me.

    In 18 years as a local well pump and water treatment dealer, I worked on many wells but only one with drop pipe of another kind than PE. Additionally, I've installed thousands of pieces of water treatment equipment on many more well water systems than those where I worked on the well pump; 99% of all my water treatment work was on wells. I've been posting about wells and pumps and water treatment in Usenet newsgroups and forums for 10 years tomorrow and no one has ever blamed PE for water hammer before!

    If you think about PE pipe, it is semi flexible and expands when frozen (not as much as PEX), so it will expand during a water hammer incident which would minimize the effect and sound. So.... how could it (or any type of pipe) cause water hammer!!!

    Use of a torque arrestor or not is not going to cause or prevent water hammer. Torque arrestors usually cause more problems than they prevent but, water hammer happens when the water movement is stopped suddenly; and here the hammer happens at shut off of the pump, not a fixture etc.

    A torque arrestor prevents rotation of the pipe and/or rubbing the pipe/pump/cable on the inside of the well rock or casing by centering the pump/cable and drop pipe in the hole.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  13. #73
    Previous member sammyhydro11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    709

    Default

    Well put Gary.

    Vaplumber,
    you're right.I do need to cool it a bit. That rancher guy just gets me riled up.

    SAM

  14. #74
    Rancher
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sammyhydro11
    That rancher guy just gets me riled up.
    Sammy, I apologize, it was not my intention to get you riled up.

    Rancher

  15. #75

    Default

    Just think... if I can learn 50 cents worth of good info I can use it to make millions of dollars fixing wells......

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •