Well Pump intermittently stops, buzzes, then starts working again

[Justwater]

actually most jet pumps will run on half power, but they start sloww and run weirdd. might pump water for a second (no pressure though) until it cuts itself off. usually wont run very long like that. if the pump ran sometimes and buzzed others... it was not capacitor, it was stationary switch right beside the capacitor. if the shaft still spins on the pump, its a pretty easy fix.

do we know what size the tank is?.. or if it has proper air? what kind of jet pump.. is it a shallow jet or deep? i'd say 2-3 yrs is about par for the course if its just a nominal pump with a small tank. sounds like it must do alot of cycling to be going through stationary switches in under 2 years.

 

[Gary Slusser]

OK, so I shouldn't have said "run on 120" since we see that it actually didn't "run" until he found and fixed the bad/loose connection in the pressure switch (as That Guy mentioned first).

I think an important part is that the problem was not a bad switch, dirty switch points or a bad capacitor and IMO this problem is but a symptom of the real problem.

I note that he said the bad connection was "burned or chewed off" and it wasn't chewed off or the pump wouldn't have come on at all. Something is making his pumps get too hot, burning wire insulation, causing loose connections etc.. Maybe over 2 yrs they are just short cycling themselves to death, or he has a water volume problem in the well.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Ballvalve]

Buying a 125$ us made flotec every three years might be cheaper than a tech installing a goulds cast iron rig. Sad but true.

 

[Texas Wellman]

You've got to be kidding me. I can install one that will last 10+ years if the water isn't too harsh and it's kept from waterlogging. Even seen them last 10+ years in harsh water. Lowe's and ********* lasts, on average, 2-3 years at best, and they have lots of failures just after the warranty is up.

Your $125 every three years doesn't account for the headache and your labor to keep messing with the pump. What is your time worth? Must not be worth very much.

 

[Justwater]

i'm assuming someone with this outlook should feel the same way about every other product they purchase. must be a full time job just replacing junk... i guess if you've never had anything worth a shit you wouldnt know the difference though.

..nothing stopping a homeowner from installing a goulds.

 

[Ballvalve]

This seems to be a guy that has no clue how a motor or tank need to work together. Therefore, he will destroy the Goulds if he installs it, and does not have the cash to hire a pro to do it right.

THAT is where flotec enters the niche, for the guy that cannot "get" it, and cannot budget 1 or 2 grand in one pop.

I could install a "rebuilt" flo-tec and tank for very few dollars, and keep it running for many, many years with minimal maintenance because I would make sure it didnt cycle to death, there was water in the hole, it had a low pressure cut out, and the start switch and Cap were up to standard and lubricated.

I will venture a guess that Flotec has a bad rep because they are NEVER installed by pro's and maintained not at all. Therefore, they gain a rep for junk, when most of the 'junk' is in the installation.

Now, having said that, the booster pump I installed on my property is a 5 stage 3 phase SS goulds rig, on a contactor with overloads, probably worth 1 grand or so, and will outlast the pipe to it and me.

 

[Texas Wellman]

THAT is where flotec enters the niche, for the guy that cannot "get" it, and cannot budget 1 or 2 grand in one pop.

I could install a "rebuilt" flo-tec and tank for very few dollars, and keep it running for many, many years with minimal maintenance because I would make sure it didnt cycle to death, there was water in the hole, it had a low pressure cut out, and the start switch and Cap were up to standard and lubricated.

I will venture a guess that Flotec has a bad rep because they are NEVER installed by pro's and maintained not at all. Therefore, they gain a rep for junk, when most of the 'junk' is in the installation.

1-2 grand for a shallow well jet pump install? Or even for a deep well jet pump install? No wonder Californians are going broke...sheesh.....

No such thing as a rebuilt Flotec. They are designed to last 2-3 years simply by their material of construction, not by their install. They use cheap plastic parts and cheap motors. They last probably 2-3 years at best even when installed correctly. The same Goulds or Sta-Rite pump, correctly installed, would last indefinitely in decent water, and probably 7+ years in harsh water.

 

[FLNative]

I have to agree that something is 'up', replacing the pump the first time was fair enough, in all honesty at the time I had no idea how long the original had been there (I only found out recently it had only been there 2-3 years to begin with) and now replacing the pump AGAIN after just another 2 years means to me something is not right, although it could just be the quality of the pumps which is why they are failing as noted above.

However, considering this failed over Christmas, AFTER we had already spent out for the merry holiday season, and considering trying to get anyone to look at the well pump in my area right after Christmas, for a reasonable price, was nigh on impossible, I 'settled' for buying another 'cheap' alternative to enable us to have water.

Am I happy? Nope, as I now fully expect to have to replace the pump AGAIN in perhaps 2-3 years. Which is why I am considering starting to put money aside, bit by bit, to enable me in 6 months or so to have someone professional in to look at the system and replace the pump with a decent model, and tweak the system where necessary. If this, in fact, recommended.

Do I understand well systems? Nope, I'm a programmer by trade and a home owner who doesn't have a lot of spare cash and who has had to learn various maintenance tasks on the fly to keep things running, welcome to life.

With that said, it does make sense somewhat that the pumps are 'short-cycling themselves to death', the pressure tank is old, and relatively small (at least to my mind), so perhaps I should be looking at replacing that within the next 6 months first to see if this helps? And with this thought in mind I'm open to whatever tidbits of information you guys are willing to give. It's greatly appreciated that you would take the time to try and assist someone like me who's out of his depth, as I would very much like to be able to fit a pump / have a pump fitted, that I merely have to provide routine maintenance for to last the next 5-10 years, as opposed to having to look forward to no water AGAIN within the next 2 years...

 

[Justwater]

Bingo, I figured u probably had a small tank and had no idea if it has any air, much less the correct amount. The tank is just as important as the pump, as it's what keeps the pump from cycling to death.

..like i said, 2-3 years = par for the course.

 

[Gary Slusser]

Read the Sticky posts at the top of this forum and check the air pressure in your tank. It should be 1-2 psi less than the turn the pump on pressure switch setting, with no water in the tank (assuming a 'bladder' type tank). I.E. 30 on 50 off gets 29-28 psi air pressure with no water in the tank.

 

[Ballvalve]

Nothing wrong with plastic parts in a pump. And the motor in the flotec might be from the same factory as the Goulds.

As to "rebuilts" they are on the big auction site and are just re certified returns to the big box because the homeowner new not how to make it run or prime.

I had the cheapest Hayward pump on my hot tub, same motor as the flotecs and about the same polymers. Lasted 22 years or so with a few caps, start switches, and bearing and seal swaps. I say its maintenance and systems, not the MFG.

 

[Justwater]

believe they both (flotec and goulds) use a.o. smith corp motors.. who i'm a longtime fan of (never liked GE motors). though i should dig deeper to see if a.o. smith has different motor lines for different brands.

my biggest problem with flotec really isnt the motor, its the head. flotec and similar pumps can not pump water without any reason. if it gets hot its likely never gonna build pressure again. everything can appear as it should be, and they still not perform. have you ever taken apart a flotec head?? what a cheap show that is! i've cussed at several of those pumps. ive seen that they have started making some with cast heads.. so apparently they arent oblivious to the problems with plastic heads. bad enough to see a plastic shallow well pump, but when i drive up and see a plastic deepwell pump... i could almost drive away.

no professionals install big box because they are professionals, and they know warranty work is a good way to go broke.

 

[Ballvalve]

I have several Myers and one ACE [flotec] submersible. They have plastic discharges, and of course the impellers.

Plastics have come to the point where they can exceed the performance of many metals.

Most if not all the goulds have poly stacks, and I'll bet they handle grit better than metal.

The Ace has a Franklin motor, and performs right to its specs. The only problem is a poor intake screen that can collect rocks on a bit of a shelf. I think its on year #7 now.

I think the DIY guys screw in steel bushings too tight and crack the outlet as the main cause of failure.

 

[Texas Wellman]

I saw one of your Lowe's pumps yesterday. 1/2 HP cast iron body. Not even in the same league as a 1/2 HP goulds or sta-rite. Motor was physically 1/2 the size of a AO smith 1/2 HP, pump was just as small. Dern thing couldn't even do 40 PSI out of the box, customer had to set the pressure switch way down.

There is no way one of those Utilitech/Lowe's/HD/FloTec pumps is as good as a Goulds or Sta-Rite cast iron jet pump. Bank it.

 

[constructor]

I'm experiencing the exact same problem with my Red Lion 3/4hp jet pump. One day the fuse blew at the fuse box. Replaced the fuse but no water. The pressure switch comes on about every five minutes, the motor buzzes and gets warm but it doesn't run. I am about to try replacing the capacitor. Any luck with your pump?

 

[Justwater]

you can try this in this exact order.. turn off power and take the back cover off the pump. make sure the motor shaft spins freely before you do anything. leave back cover off motor.

then flip the power on and with the motor humming (before it trips out), you can carefully push the stationary switch contacts together at the back of the motor with an ELECTRICAL SCREWDRIVER to see if the motor engages. if it does, turn off the power and replace that stationary switch. if it doesnt, turn off the power and try the capacitor.

this is kind of a dangerous test and i probably shouldnt even share it.. so pay attention and dont shock yourself.

 

[constructor]

I'm experiencing a very similar problem with my jet pump. One day the fuse blew at the fuse box. Replaced the fuse but no water. The pressure switch comes on about every five minutes, the motor buzzes and gets warm but it doesn't run. I am about to try replacing the capacitor. Any luck with your pump?

 

[Justwater]

constructor, read my post above yours

it actually pertains to you and the OP.

 

[Ballvalve]

you can try this in this exact order.. turn off power and take the back cover off the pump. make sure the motor shaft spins freely before you do anything. leave back cover off motor.

then flip the power on and with the motor humming (before it trips out), you can carefully push the stationary switch contacts together at the back of the motor with an ELECTRICAL SCREWDRIVER to see if the motor engages. if it does, turn off the power and replace that stationary switch. if it doesnt, turn off the power and try the capacitor. 

this is kind of a dangerous test and i probably shouldnt even share it.. so pay attention and dont shock yourself.

Seems to me to be safer to explain that the starter centrifigal switch in the motor rear MUST have the contacts closed or touching when the motor is off.

And the power can be off for this research. THEN the tester can manually operate the switch if he has an ounce of mechanical sense. If no spring tension holding the contacts closed, usually one spring is in pieces in the area.

Many motors are going to sealed relay switches, so this may not apply.

But IF it has a start switch the contacts must be closed when the motor is off, and they must open when the motor gets to speed. But usually the capacitor is to blame. If the switch works and the capacitor checks out [very quick and easy with a ohmmeter] you have a motor for recycling if the thing still turns by hand.

 

[Valveman]

Sorry. I shouldn't have gotten off topic. I have a copy if anybody wants theirs.
Cary