Well Head Spigot Has Me Stumped

[AaronB]

This is my first post here, but I have been reading these Terry Love forums and learning from them for a very long time. This is an excellent place for good info and has saved me countless dollars and hours. That said, I am at my wits end with this. I'll try to keep it short.

I have a sulphur odor in my well water (NOT why I'm posting). Not as bad as I've smelled in other places but annoying. Looked at Sulphur Eliminator, looks good but frankly, I want to try straight aeration via the well head. I have no well head spigot. Easy, I'll put one in, right? So I did and I only have a mist from my nozzle when the pump kicks on. I've spent hours and hours reading everything here and other places. Learned all about check valves in well systems. Wow. Lots of opinions and facts about that. I found a check valve in my basement! Took it out (wow, can't believe ANY water was coming in to house, it was stuck almost shut, see pic) and sweated a new piece of copper in. Fired everything back up and still only get water at my new spigot when pump kicks on. I read on another post here something like "... the pressure tank doesn't care which way the water goes..." I look at my set up and I agree.

I've taken pictures of my set up. Is there something I don't see?? The T at the top of the well is just a T not a check. Why would I not have constant pressure at my well head? Plenty of people use nozzle misters at the well head through their water test tap. I don't think I'm trying something weird. I know it's probably just something I don't know/understand. Help, pros! Please call me an idiot and tell me what I missed.

Well was drilled in 1962. Pump & control replaced in April 2020. Well is 275 ft deep. Pump set at 262. Everything in the house/farm works perfectly. I have no pressure issues, water hammer, or any issues. 1 1/4 inch copper line from well to house. About a 25 foot run from well head to basement room in pics.

 

[Reach4]

I've taken pictures of my set up. Is there something I don't see??

I don't see the topside check valve. Is that what the pressure switch nipple is screwed into? Show us a photo of that check valve, including a Schrader valve on it if present. It may be that there used to be a "conventional" pressure tank with no diaphragm or bladder.

What is the last (fuzzy) photo showing?

Normally you will want to remove/disembowel the topside check valve. However sometimes that is needed because there is a leak down the hole. Such a leak would have been there on purpose if there was a conventional tank in the past.

When you get the pump pulled some day, you will get rid of that hole and the topside check valve. Until then, to use that outside faucet, you will have to run water inside too.

For H2S, sanitizing may help significantly. https://terrylove.com/forums/index....izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/ is my sanitizing writeup. It is written mainly for those with a pitless adapter, but you can probably figure out how to adapt that.

Looked at Sulphur Eliminator, looks good but frankly, I want to try straight aeration via the well head.

I don't know what you have in mind. But if you want water to recirculate, you will have to run a line from after the check valve.

You could try disabling the check valve. That hole in the pipe might almost act like a sulfur eliminator. Not the fine-mist nozzle, which is ideal. That hole in the pipe might actually have a working drain-back valve which minimizes the leakage. Then just disabling the check valve would give you a more normal setup that would work as you expected. See how often the pump cycles.

If you want to find discussions of this drain-back system and check valve, your key word for searches is snifter plus something that gets you to well stuff instead of brandy glasses. "snifter valve" would take care of that.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[AaronB]

Not sure what you mean by "leak down the hole." If you mean a leak in the downpipe to the pump, then no. That was all replaced in April this year. New wire, Gould pump, and 200lb black line.

I went through a complete sanitizing procedure similar to yours shortly after the new pump. Worked for a while. Then came back.

I assume it had an old style pressure tank just in looking at the cut copper on the main with the stops. The pressure tank was installed 6-8 yrs ago before I bought and remodelled the house. You can see them in the picture. The fuzzy pic is of the swing type check valve I found that was rusted stuck, almost shut. I was amazed we had water at all. Here's a closeup of the pressure switch and you're right. Assuming that's the old style with schrader valve from an old style tank, you're saying gut it and I'll have pressure all the way back and forward, meaning the hose bib will work, this makes sense to me and it follows with the whole no check valves discussion. Pump cycling should not be a problem, I'm using a 2 gph nozzle. The only other check I will have will be the one on the pump proper.

I should have found/known this from all the reading I did here.

 

[Reach4]

the hole." If you mean a leak in the downpipe to the pump, then no. That was all replaced in April this year. New wire, Gould pump, and 200lb black line.

Cool. See that protrusion on the side of the check valve? I think that is a snifter valve. It is like a tire valve, but has a very weak spring so it can open in the presence of a vacuum.

Do you get air in your water? That could be a source.

So presuming the bleed-back valve/hole is no longer there, why is there no pressure? I cannot be sure there is not pressure there before you crack that valve outside. It only takes the tiniest bit of water to enter that valve to drop the pressure to zero. Water is for practical purposes in compressible.

If you can put a garden hose thread pressure gauge on that outside spigot, and the pressure holds for a minute after the pump turns off, then your drain-back is gone, and any leaks are not significant. I am not a pro. I am picking 1 minute because it feels right.

Then you can remove/disable that check valve with no concerns.

Is that well seal in a pit? Pits can flood. Well seals don't seal (broad statement that is only occupationally wrong IMO). Some put a sump pump in the pit if flooding is expected. I had my pit demolished, and my casing extended above ground to prevent contaminating my drinking water. A pitless adapter keeps the water below the frost line.

 

[AaronB]

Cool. See that protrusion on the side of the check valve? I think that is a snifter valve. It is like a tire valve, but has a very weak spring so it can open in the presence of a vacuum.

Is that well seal in a pit? Pits can flood. Well seals don't seal (broad statement that is only occupationally wrong IMO). Some put a sump pump in the pit if flooding is expected. I had my pit demolished, and my casing extended above ground to prevent contaminating my drinking water. A pitless adapter keeps the water below the frost line.

Once in a while I'll get air and I suspect it's this valve. It's all making sense now. You're saying there's another check valve behind the snifter/schrader valve that needs to get gone.

It is in a pit. And "sealed" is relative, correct. It doesn't get water in it but I installed a UV light to make sure. Our water tests good always. I'd love to extend and go to a pitless but not in the budget and have not had a problem with water in the pit in the 4 years we've been here.

It is going to be a bear to take all that apart. I believe I'll cut it all out with the trusty HackZall and replumb it. There's no way I'll be able to get that all apart without breaking something and even if I did it'll leak when I try to put it back.

Thank you, Reach4!

Others please weigh in!

 

[Reach4]

Once in a while I'll get air and I suspect it's this valve. It's all making sense now. You're saying there's another check valve behind the snifter/schrader valve that needs to get gone.

There was a drain-back valve or hole about 5 ft or so down the well. That let water out. Air came in. Each time the pump started, air followed by water would go into the pressure tank. The tank had a valve to release excess air. When the air plus water came up, there was not a bang, because the air cushioned things rather than having the water instantly slam against the poppet.

This system had the advantage of aerating the water some, and got rid of some H2S.

That sifter valve can be deactivated completely by putting a tire cap over the valve. Those seal. The ones made for specifically for snifter valves don't seal.

 

[AaronB]

There was a drain-back valve or hole about 5 ft or so down the well. That let water out. Air came in. Each time the pump started, air followed by water would go into the pressure tank. The tank had a valve to release excess air. When the air plus water came up, there was not a bang, because the air cushioned things rather than having the water instantly slam against the poppet.

This system had the advantage of aerating the water some, and got rid of some H2S.

That sifter valve can be deactivated completely by putting a tire cap over the valve. Those seal. The ones made for specifically for snifter valves don't seal.

Understand covering the snifter with a tire cap or replacing with a pipe plug, BUT there's also a spring or swing check valve in that fitting body, right? That's what is keeping pressure off the other side of the pressure tank? Simply deactivating the snifter will not solve the check valve issue, correct?

 

[Reach4]

Understand covering the snifter with a tire cap or replacing with a pipe plug, BUT there's also a spring or swing check valve in that fitting body, right? That's what is keeping pressure off the other side of the pressure tank? Simply deactivating the snifter will not solve the check valve issue, correct?

Correct.

 

[AaronB]

Thanks for all the help Reach4, I really appreciate it!

Now I just cross fingers that I don't develop a leak in the line from the well to the house. Old copper...

 

[Valveman]

If you have a bleeder orifice down hole as Reach suspects, it probably had a regular air over water tank to start with. When the air over water tank was removed to install the diaphragm tank is probably when the Sulfur started. A 2 GPM mist system will cause lots of pump cycles. You might be better off going back to a air over water style tank and let the bleeder and Schrader add the air need to eliminate the sulfur smell?

 

[AaronB]

If you have a bleeder orifice down hole as Reach suspects, it probably had a regular air over water tank to start with. When the air over water tank was removed to install the diaphragm tank is probably when the Sulfur started. A 2 GPM mist system will cause lots of pump cycles. You might be better off going back to a air over water style tank and let the bleeder and Schrader add the air need to eliminate the sulfur smell?

I don't have a bleeder down hole. Everything in the well casing replaced in April.

The mister is 2 gpHour, not gpm so 48 gallons a day doesn't worry me as far as pump cycling. If the 2gph works, I plan on going to a 1 gph and see what happens.

I'm pulling out the old snifter valve/check today. That will take me a while, I'm not a fast plumber at all. Once that last check valve is gone, I'll have pressure back to the spigot and should be off to the races. Then, finally, I'll be able to see if this aeration works.

Side note, just bought all the galvanized and copper to remove that snifter check. Dang, this stuff is expensive.

 

[Reach4]

It is usually best to not use new galvanized. Brass, bronze, or plastic.

 

[AaronB]

It is usually best to not use new galvanized. Brass, bronze, or plastic.

Don't disagree but I have to drive 2 hr round trip to get that and would have to basically replumb the entire pressure tank set up. I think one day I will rent an excavator and replace everything to plastic from well head to house plumbing but for now, just going to replace like with like.

 

[Reach4]

Don't disagree but I have to drive 2 hr round trip to get that and would have to basically replumb the entire pressure tank set up. I think one day I will rent an excavator and replace everything to plastic from well head to house plumbing but for now, just going to replace like with like.

How big is your galvanized from the well to the house? My well water comes in via 3/4 polyethylene inside the original 1-1/4 galvanized.

 

[AaronB]

How big is your galvanized from the well to the house? My well water comes in via 3/4 polyethylene inside the original 1-1/4 galvanized.

1 1/4 Copper from well to house. But I had to fix it at the well pit collar earlier this year. Tree root. It's 58 years old so it's going to spring a bad leak sooner than later. That's another reason I don't want these check valves in the system, if it's under constant pressure at least I'll get a leak instead of contaminants. My understanding of our county code is that checks above ground are now illegal for that very reason.

 

[Reach4]

1 1/4 Copper from well to house.

You could probably run 3/4 SIDR inside if it is a straight run if there is a need. Maybe even 1 inch pex, which is 1.125 OD. Not sure. Unless your water is acidic, the copper should last. 3/4 SIDR is intermediate in size between 1 inch pex and 3/4 inch PEX.

The tree problem was probably due to a connection leak rather than a failure of the copper. But once the tree detected the water, it was relentless.

 

[AaronB]

All check valves removed and aerator works great. We will see about the smell. Thank you Reach4 and Valveman for you help.

 

[AaronB]

How big is your galvanized from the well to the house? My well water comes in via 3/4 polyethylene inside the original 1-1/4 galvanized.

I just realized what this says. I sure like the idea of pushing plastic in through the old copper. Probably the thing do when the next leak occurs.

 

[Valveman]

The mister is 2 gpHour, not gpm so 48 gallons a day doesn't worry me as far as pump cycling. If the 2gph works, I plan on going to a 1 gph and see what happens.

Makes more sense, thank. That is about the same flow rate the Sulfur Eliminator uses. It just dumps the aerated water back down the well instead.

 

[AaronB]

Makes more sense, thank. That is about the same flow rate the Sulfur Eliminator uses. It just dumps the aerated water back down the well instead.

It's been about 48 hours and the smell is completely gone. Going to give it a week and then try the 1gph nozzle and see what happens.