Waxless or Wax?

[advertguy2]

Hi,

Installed my first toilet a couple of months ago and needed to use 2 wax rings because the top of my flange was about 1/4" below the top of the new tile floor. My wife and I are noticing a sewergas smell in the new ensuite and believe it's coming from the toilet. As I had mentioned in another thread, I wasn't 100% sure that I had made a seal with the 2 wax rings. So anyways, this weekend I'm going to try and fix this.

I'm hesitant to try the double wax ring thing again. My options are:

1) add extension rings (siliconed down) and then a single wax ring.
2) use one of the fluidmaster waxless seal things from HD.
3) track down a fernco waxless and use that

I've read the online instructions from fluidmaster and they don't appear to have and adhesive between the bowl and their seal. I've seen pictures here where the fluidmaster waxless is stuck on the bottom of a bowl. How is it stuck there?

Will I have problems achieving a proper seal using the waxless things now that I have used wax?

Is the proper flange height supposed to be so that the bottom of the flange is at the same level as the top of the finished floor? If the flange is 1/2" thick then it'll be 1/2" above the floor. Is this proper because I'm redoing another bathroom and want to get it right this time.

Thanks a lot!

Dan

 

[Gary Swart]

I believe you are on the right track. It sounds like you did not get a good seal with the double wax rings. Actually, you may have too much wax. I'm pretty sure the pros who done hundreds of toilet installs will chime in with different opinions one how best to proceed, but I think there a couple of good alternatives. You could use a single thick wax ring. You could also use the waxless. You could also use a extension ring with a standard size wax ring as you mention. Not only siliconed but screwed down. When using a waxless ring, most of the pros advocate putting the ring on the toilet then setting the toilet. There is a gasket that fits on the toilet's horn that will hold the ring in place. This is different from the directions in the installation instructions, but seems to work better than installing the ring first. I have used both waxless and wax and have had 100% success with both. I have not had to deal with a flange that was set too low as yours is, but many folks have to deal with this problem after a new floor is installed.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Mattbee24]

Oatey makes toilet flange spacers. They are 1/4" thick and are stackable. I think I would get the flange flush with the floor before going any further. It makes thinks much easier in the long run.

 

[SteveW]

https://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27409

I used Sioux Chief spacer rings, screwed them down with stainless steel screws, and used wax instead of silicone between the spacer and the flange.

As you will see on this thread, my use of the spacer ring may not be the best way to hold the closet bolts, but if your bolts are long enough that may not be a problem for you.

 

[NotNewbie]

for ease of installation, why doesnt the standard wax ring(and poly black horn) just be longer. they make thicker wax rings...how come they dont come out with longer horns - instead of 2 inches...maybe 3-4 inch. it would help in installation by guiding the toilet into the flange when the wax is applied first...

anyone agree?

 

[Plumber Ron]

gaskets

In my opinion, I would never use wax gaskets. They are very messy when you have to change them. You can get sponge rubber gaskets that come in three different sizes: 1/2", 3/4", and 1". If your flange is 1/4' below the floor a 1" gasket should do, if not you can always use a 3/4" and 1/2" stacked together. I have used this method for ten years and never had a problem. I hope it is helpful!!

 

[Jadnashua]

The wax rings with the embedded horn is probably the source of one of the most common problems people have. If you don't get things aligned properly, or if you have a smaller opening (inside mount, offset, etc.), the horn will either collapse or cause other problems. Wax is fine by itself. A waxless should last a very long time, so I don't think it is an issue. They're handy if you are doing some remodeling and need to install and replace the toilet a few times as things progress. And, the horn on a waxless won't collapse like the rubber one embedded in a wax ring, or cause a leakage path if your flange is high and you squeeze most or all of the wax out...plastic to porcelin doesn't make a good seal.

 

[SewerRatz]

I vote for plumbers putty.

 

[Redwood]

I vote for plumbers putty.

Now that is an ancient school method....

Even older than old school....

 

[Kingsotall]

hehe @ redwood
says it on the tub 'o putty "For setting bowls"

 

[Redwood]

Yea I know...
I think most plumbers stopped using it for that before I was born...

 

[Kingsotall]

You mean before wax was even invented¿!

 

[advertguy2]

I decided to go with the Fernco waxless. I purchased the Fluidmaster and tried it out on an Aquia II bowl I have in my basement waiting for my next bathroom. When I pushed it over the horn, there were small gaps because the horn wasn't perfectly round. So I wrote off the Fluidmaster for that reason. May have worked fine on my Kohler Persuade though. Who knows. Anyways, the Fernco was pretty easy.

When I pulled the toilet I found that instead of compressing, the dual wax rings sort of offsetted when I pushed down on the bowl to seat them. I put one under the toilet (flat side on the toilet) and one on the flange (flat side on the flange). This left two rounded surfaces pressing together which looking back wasn't ideal... Live and learn I guess.

Hopefully I'll be leak and sewer gas free from now on.