Water softener catastrophic failure

[opto_isolator]

This is the second time this has happened in two years. The first time it was under warranty and the seller exchanged under waterwar. This time I doubt it will happen. I'm guessing this is due to a pressure spike? Any feedback about this would be great. From what I recall the max pressure of these units is 100 psi. I wonder how much pressure it takes to do this?

I called the city water department to talk to someone about this. I doubt they'll pay to replace it...

 

[Reach4]

I'm guessing this is due to a pressure spike? Any feedback about this would be great. From what I recall the max pressure of these units is 100 psi. I wonder how much pressure it takes to do this?

I would not think this would happen with 150 PSI, but it probably did. That would be the pressure that the water heater would release the pressure.

Your water heater thermal expansion tank may have failed, or you may need one and not have one.

Or your idea of the city water having a spike could be it. You should get pressure gauge with a lazy (tattletale) hand. If the problem is the thermal expansion tank, you would expect a reliable rise in pressure after a hot shower followed by not using any water.

You appear to have a Fleck 7000 SXT.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[opto_isolator]

Yep - Fleck 7000, which I've heard is now discontinued

The city water department is going to come out and install a logger on my spigot outside the house for 24 hours. They are also going to stop by on Sunday and take a look at my plumbing to see if there is anything that is needed. We don't have a hot water expansion tank - apparently they are not code where I live in FL (never understood that). I would think that the hot water heater safety valve would dump if there was a pressure spike as well, but it's never released anything. I've used it to drain the tank previously.

 

[Reach4]

Get the pressure gauge. Under $20, and often under $10. You can mount it to an outside spigot if you don't have a PRV. You can mount it to a laundry tap, and you can put it on the water heater drain valve.

You cannot drain a water heater with the temperature+pressure relief valve; those are up high on the WH.

 

[opto_isolator]

Get the pressure gauge. Under $20, and often under $10. You can mount it to an outside spigot if you don't have a PRV. You can mount it to a laundry tap, and you can put it on the water heater drain valve.

You cannot drain a water heater with the temperature+pressure relief valve; those are up high on the WH.

Already did that - but this doesn't show water pressure over time. I did see spikes....

But, the logger that the city will install should provide a clear picture as to what is happening. Once we have the data I will share. Could the hot water heater cause excessive pressure on the line? It's not set excessively hot.

 

[Reach4]

Already did that - but this doesn't show water pressure over time. I did see spikes....

After a shower, turn off the water. Don't flush the toilet. Go watch the pressure gauge right away. Is it climbing? Alternatively, point a movie camera or equiv at the dial, and take that shower.

Vibration can affect those lazy hand meters.

 

[ditttohead]

The water heater absolutely can cause excessive pressure on the house especially if you have a check valve or backflow preventer installed. Water expands when it heats up, since water does not compress, the water heater, softener, plumbing, flex line etc all expand tto allow for this increase in water volume.

A properly maintained thermal expansion tank is required if you have any sort of backflow prevention device before the water heater.

The little gauges with the red dial are excellent, and they tend to show what is going on in your plumbing supply. Spikes at night are the most common when the water usage throughout the area drops.

UPC states that if the water pressure will ever exceed 80 PSI a regulator must be installed. Even with a regulator, a thermal expansion tank is highly advised.

 

[opto_isolator]

We'li think we have a winner. So the public works guy came back today and confirmed my suspicions. His chart recorder captured two large spikes that occurred in a 24 hour time period. Both pegged the needle on the recorder, which was 100 psi. He took measurements at two other houses in the area, as well as confirmed with the data records from the pumping stations that no one else including the pumping stations exceeded 70 psi, meaning the problem is only related to my house. Code here requires a back flow diverter on my line.

I think it's the hot water heater causing this mess. Code here requires an expansion tank or a pressure relief valve. The builder used a pressure relief valve, which the guy said doesn't appear to be working correctly. Couple this with a back flow diverter, and I think the water heater is causing excessive pressure on the lines.

I ordered a 4 gallon expansion tank, as well as installed a new PRV, and ordered water hammer arrestors for the dishwasher and refrigerator. Already have them in the washing machines. Can't think of any other reason for pressure spikes other than the water heater and water hammers from the somebody valves of those devices in our house. Now just need to order a replacement softener head tomorrow...

 

[ditttohead]

This is very common. Fortunately you found the problem before a line blew under the kitchen sink.

I would recommend replacing all of your stainless flex lines under your sinks and the laundry lines since these have all been given quite a work out over the past few years.

 

[opto_isolator]

Good idea!! I expect I will be ordering a replacement soon!

 

[Reach4]

View attachment 49181

1. How hard was it to remove the broken off threads from the tank?
2. How tight are you tightening? I wonder if overtightening could have contributed.

 

[opto_isolator]

Actually very easy to remove. I just stuck my fingers in and turned. I wantwa over tightening the head, I made sure of that!

My biggest concern new is that the tank has been sitting like this for a week now. I'm concerned about stuff growing in it. Draining isn't an easy thing. I may need to get a hose and siphon the water out before I install a new head.

 

[Reach4]

A small amount of bleach can probably take care of that. Not too much to damage the resin. We could discuss dose.

The distributor tube stayed in place, didn't it? You should not have to take the resin out, in that case. If it lifted, somebody might have a way to get it back in place without pulling the resin. Do you have gravel?

 

[opto_isolator]

Yes - nothing else shifted at all, which is why I would prefer not to tip the tank....All I should have to do is to re-thread everything back on and screw it together. I have gravel in the bottom as well. Any recommendations for bleach to ensure I don't damage the resin? It looks like if I order a replacement head today, it should be here by the end of the week, hopefully sooner.

 

[Reach4]

Working the math... I estimated about 15 gallons of water in 10x54 inch tank. That is a little high due to resin displacement, I know. That is 1920 ounces.

If I presume 6.25% bleach (62500 ppm), and estimating I want about 6 ppm of bleach, that comes to 0.18432 oz or 1.10592 teaspoons.

After that, I think my 6 ppm was low, so maybe I would bump that up. I would like to hear from others how much bleach would be best. I know that Fleck suggests 1.2 fluid ounces of bleach into the brine tank for the first regen, for each cubic ft of resin. You can still do that after the direct-to-tank bleaching. It does put the numbers in perspective. However the bleach in the brine tank is only in contact with the resin for a short time before getting rinsed through. The stuff you add to the resin tank will be there for maybe a week.

On the other hand, bleach will get weaker as it does its job. So what starts as 6 ppm could be exhausted fairly soon.

I would also add an acid such as white vinegar or citric acid. If vinegar, I would maybe go 1 tablespoon (3 teaspoons) but I doubt more would hurt. I would not add the bleach and acid together (generates chlorine gas) , but I would add some bleach, and follow with acid or vice versa.

I would siphon water, maybe from inside the distributor tube (with tubing that was 3/8 to 5/8 OD) into a container.

How to distribute the bleach and vinegar through the tank? Maybe siphon a bucket of water. Pour into the tank outside of the distributor tube. Repeat several times. If I had a suitable pump, I could use that instead.