Small portable brine tank

[James Herrin]

I need some expert advice. I live full time in an RV. I have a 16k softner installed and plumbed into the water system. I don't have enough height to add an automatic valve head, so I recharge it manually by filling a 10" filter canister with solar salt. I was thinking of making a small portable brine tank out of a 5 gallon bucket to use when it is time to recharge my softener. Would this work? Any ideas?

 

[Reach4]

I need some expert advice. I live full time in an RV. I have a 16k softner installed and plumbed into the water system. I don't have enough height to add an automatic valve head, so I recharge it manually by filling a 10" filter canister with solar salt. I was thinking of making a small portable brine tank out of a 5 gallon bucket to use when it is time to recharge my softener. Would this work? Any ideas?

How do you introduce salt now? What would cause the brine in the bucket to be drawn? Do you have a Fleck 2510 Manual softener valve or similar?

A softener valve has a venturi pump, often called an injector, which sucks the brine into the media tank.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[James Herrin]

How do you introduce salt now? What would cause the brine in the bucket to be drawn?

A softener valve has a venturi pump, often called an injector, which sucks the brine into the media tank.

Currently I recharge it manually by filling a 10" filter canister with salt and letting the water slowly flow through the salt, into the softener and down the drain. It would be easy to add an injector to the plumbing. I just need some advice on how to make it all work.

 

[Bannerman]

Do you actually travel in this RV or does it remain at one location as your permanent address?

In warm locations that do not usually experience freezing temperatures, softeners are often installed externally with protection from rain. Protection from sunlight is also recommended.

 

[James Herrin]

Do you actually travel in this RV or does it remain at one location as your permanent address?

In warm locations that do not usually experience freezing temperatures, softeners are often installed externally with protection from rain. Protection from sunlight is also recommended.

We travel live in it and travel, so that is why I am looking for a small portable brine tank. The softener is mounted/installed inside the RV.

 

[Bannerman]

Perhaps the unit that you are using is similar to that shown in this link: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw3veZLI5jQkbCwYz5Lc0X3M

The instructions indicate to use 2 boxes (3-4 lbs) of regular table salt placed into the pre-filter sump, which appears to be similar to the procedure you are currently following. As the solar salt will likely dissolve slower than table salt, that maybe why you are considering pre-dissolving salt to create brine which would take-place in the additional bucket.

Perhaps a simple diagphram pump could be utilized to transfer the brine from the bucket to the softener outlet connection. Here is an example: https://www.amazon.com/OMMO-Diaphragm-Priming-Sprayer-Pressure/dp/B0863WL6FG

Regeneration would then involve adding the appropriate quantity of salt and water to the bucket 1-2 hours in advance of regeneration. When brining is to occur, the pump will then transfer the brine from the bucket to the softener. Once the full strength brine has been transferred, additional plain water could be added to the bucket, allowing the pump to further slowly rinse the calcium, magnesium, chloride and excess sodium from the resin bed.

 

[Reach4]

Currently I recharge it manually by filling a 10" filter canister with salt and letting the water slowly flow through the salt, into the softener and down the drain. It would be easy to add an injector to the plumbing. I just need some advice on how to make it all work.

Cool. I am thinking of putting in a tee and a valve after the water shutoff. Use something like a bottling spigot on a container, such as a bucket

Perhaps a simple diagphram pump could be utilized to transfer the brine from the bucket to the softener outlet connection.

I was thinking something similar except having something like a bottling spigot in the bucket to let the bucket slowly drain by gravity. But valving would have to take the pressure off and let the brine in.

 

[James Herrin]

Perhaps the unit that you are using is similar to that shown in this link: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw3veZLI5jQkbCwYz5Lc0X3M

The instructions indicate to use 2 boxes (3-4 lbs) of regular table salt placed into the pre-filter sump, which appears to be similar to the procedure you are currently following. As the solar salt will likely dissolve slower than table salt, that maybe why you are considering pre-dissolving salt to create brine which would take-place in the additional bucket.

Perhaps a simple diagphram pump could be utilized to transfer the brine from the bucket to the softener outlet connection. Here is an example: https://www.amazon.com/OMMO-Diaphragm-Priming-Sprayer-Pressure/dp/B0863WL6FG

Regeneration would then involve adding the appropriate quantity of salt and water to the bucket 1-2 hours in advance of regeneration. When brining is to occur, the pump will then transfer the brine from the bucket to the softener. Once the full strength brine has been transferred, additional plain water could be added to the bucket, allowing the pump to further slowly rinse the calcium, magnesium, chloride and excess sodium from the resin bed.

That is an idea. I want to make regeneration simple and easy. I have had larger softeners with a brine tank that didn't uses any pumps. I thought surely I could build a small brine tank for this small softener. I was hoping someone with more knowledge of softeners could point me in the right direction. The only difference between an automatic softener with a brine tank and what I am trying to do is that the switching of the valves on my system would be done manually instead of automatically.

 

[ditttohead]

A simple refill head works great. Just unscrew the cap on the top, siphon out a little water, add salt, turn the water on slowly and let it rinse itself. Works perfect, cheap, high quality.

 

[Bannerman]

I have had larger softeners with a brine tank that didn't uses any pumps.

It is not the brine tank that causes brine to be transferred to the resin tank of a larger softener. It is the injector and the water flow path within a regular softener's control valve to a dedicated drain port that creates suction to draw the brine from the brine tank. Without a control valve, regeneration of your softener is a totally manual process which could be performed through various methods such as those mentioned.

 

[James Herrin]

A simple refill head works great. Just unscrew the cap on the top, siphon out a little water, add salt, turn the water on slowly and let it rinse itself. Works perfect, cheap, high quality.View attachment 64934

Thanks, but unfortunately my tank is installed and mounted with no access to the top. I have no room to add a different head.

 

[James Herrin]

It is not the brine tank that causes brine to be transferred to the resin tank of a larger softener. It is the injector and the water flow path within a regular softener's control valve to a dedicated drain port that creates suction to draw the brine from the brine tank. Without a control valve, regeneration of your softener is a totally manual process which could be performed through various methods such as those mentioned.

That is what I am looking for. A totally manual process. I just don't exactly know how to do it or what I need to buy. I am wanting to get ideas on making a small brine tank and how it needs to be plumbed. I don't have any problems with the plumbing part, I can handle that. I just need ideas on how to go about hooking it up and ideas on how small of a tank will work for this small softener.

 

[ditttohead]

Mazzei makes injectors that should work well for you. It would need to be installed on a bypass line or intermittently as needed. A 5 gallon bucket of salt water is perfect.

 

[Reach4]

That is what I am looking for. A totally manual process. I just don't exactly know how to do it or what I need to buy. I am wanting to get ideas on making a small brine tank and how it needs to be plumbed. I don't have any problems with the plumbing part, I can handle that. I just need ideas on how to go about hooking it up and ideas on how small of a tank will work for this small softener.

With 0.5 cubic ft of resin, I think you would want to dissolve 5 to 8 lbs of salt each regen, and to do that, you would add 1.66 to 2.66 gallons of water each time before regeration. So your idea of a 5 gallon bucket was in the right ballpark . You could leave extra salt in the bucket between regens.

 

[James Herrin]

Mazzei makes injectors that should work well for you. It would need to be installed on a bypass line or intermittently as needed. A 5 gallon bucket of salt water is perfect.

Thanks. Can you explain this in a little bit more detail please? What do you mean by "bypass line or intermittently" ? Is this bypass line on the outlet or inlet to the softener? What size injector or are they all the same? Any special equipment that you would recommend for the bucket or just drop the suction in it?

 

[James Herrin]

With 0.5 cubic ft of resin, I think you would want to dissolve 5 to 8 lbs of salt each regen, and to do that, you would add 1.66 to 2.66 gallons of water each time before regeration. So your idea of a 5 gallon bucket was in the right ballpark . You could leave extra salt in the bucket between regens.

Perfect. That is the kind of info I am looking for. Thanks. What would be the ideal way to make the brine? If I just dump the water and salt into the bucket will it completely dissolve on it's own and how long would it take.

 

[Reach4]

For every gallon you add to salt, it will dissolve 3 pounds of salt if there is an excess of salt and the salt comes into contact with the water sufficiently.

Salt water is heavier than fresh, so if the salt is not up high in the bucket, I would stir the mix to break up stratification.

There is at least one person who thinks stratification is not something significant. I think it is significant.

You might look for articles and Youtube videos on how to add a spigot to a bucket. If you can do that, gravity can work with you. A small pump can also meter the brine slowly into your tank.

 

[Bannerman]

We are assuming your softener contains 0.5 cubic feet of resin as your softener's stated capacity is 16,000 grains whereas 1 cubic foot of resin typically has a maximum total capacity of 32,000 grains.

Since 20 lbs salt will be required to regenerate 32K grains in 1ft3, I anticipate 10 lbs will be needed to regenerate all 16K grains capacity in your softener. Because 1 gallon water will dissolve 3 lbs salt, 3.3 gallons will be needed to dissolve 10 lbs. Once 10 lbs salt has been placed into a 5 gallon bucket, the remaining space is likely sufficient for not much more than 3.3 gallons water.

Some softeners add water to the brine tank at the start of regeneration which is followed by a 1-2 hour delay to allow the appropriate quantity of salt to dissolve before regeneration continues. This was the reason why preparing brine 1-2 hours in advance of when regeneration is to be performed was stated in post #6 above.

 

[James Herrin]

Thanks everyone, this is good information for me. I am getting some good ideas, please keep it coming.

For every gallon you add to salt, it will dissolve 3 pounds of salt if there is an excess of salt and the salt comes into contact with the water sufficiently.

Salt water is heavier than fresh, so if the salt is not up high in the bucket, I would stir the mix to break up stratification.

There is at least one person who thinks stratification is not something significant. I think it is significant.

You might look for articles and Youtube videos on how to add a spigot to a bucket. If you can do that, gravity can work with you. A small pump can also meter the brine slowly into your tank.

I can easily add a spigot to a bucket. I have done that before. However I have no space to raise the bucket. It would sit at the same height as the base of the softener, so I don't think gravity would work for me. I might have to consider a pump. Would a pump be more efficient than using an injector? Any pros or cons?

 

[Bannerman]

Instead of electricity to power a pump, an injector will utilize a stream of water flowing through the injector to create suction on a tube to draw brine from the bucket.
https://mazzei.net/venturi_injectors/