Septic Grey Water Ejector Pump Losing Prime?

[HiQ]

So we have a bit of a weird setup for our septic system.

We have a separating tank, holding tank and ejector. So everything in the house goes into the first part of the tank, then grey water moves over to another side. That side then has a 1-1/4 poly pipe back into our basement to a Monarch BE-S33 ejector pump. This pumps the grey water back out to an ejector (basically just dumps the water on the far side of our acreage).

We had some issues initially due to some faulty floats. One those were replaced, we've been good for a while. I repositioned things slightly a few months back. After doing so, I was losing prime on the ejector. I retightened up all the hose clamps and we have been golden for a few months now.

Until yesterday. The pump was running for who knows how long (fairly hot to the touch) as it had lost prime and was trying to pump air. We had a little sewage backup in the utility room (oh joy). I reprimed it and it pumped everything out like a champ. Next day the same thing with losing prime. And again last night at 4AM. I checked everything for tight so I'm at a loss.

I am not the original owner here, so I'm not 100% sure on some things. From the best of my knowledge, there is no check/foot valve anywhere on the sewage side. From everything I've seen, there should be one on the discharge side of the system. I can definitely look at adding one asap, but I just want some more input here.

It kind of seems like we're relying on the little flapper valve thing on the front of the pump. When I open the See-Fil filter before the intake it will back flow some water from the pump. Seems like that should be a no go. I reallllly don't want an air leak on the intake pipe as it is in poured concrete and would be next to impossible to replace without major major costs.

Could it be a simple issue where there isn't an external check valve and the internal pump's check has worn out? Should I be pulling the front off the pump and checking the condition of that flapper? Would you recommend anything else?

I'm not opposed to replacing the pump either. It's only 1/3HP and I would probably step up to 1/2HP next time. It has to be a similar style pump (no submersible option unfortunately) so I'm stuck with the Monarch, Little Giant, Red Lion clones. Any other pumps out there better or which one would you consider?

I need this figured out pretty quick as my wife is due within a week and I can't come home to a sewage flooded house with a new baby. Thanks!

 

[HiQ]

I found a picture online of a very similar setup to ours, but they have a check valve before their filter on the intake side. I guess that would make more sense than on the ejector side. It's basically a water pump drawing in the grey water so it should be on the intake side? Before or after the filter?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[WorthFlorida]

It's always a bitch trying to find the air leak like this. If you have good ears put year ear near or on the pipes to the pump. If it is nearby you should be able to hear a little gurgling. If not get an automotive stethoscope and try that. You might be able to locate the source. When losing prime the air leak will almost alway be on the suction side. A worn out shaft seal at the impella could be the source but more than likely not since you'll have a a little water leaking from it. The seal could go bad after a hot dry run as you just experienced.

https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=mechanics stethoscope

 

[HiQ]

It's always a bitch trying to find the air leak like this. If you have good ears put year ear near or on the pipes to the pump. If it is nearby you should be able to hear a little gurgling. If not get an automotive stethoscope and try that. You might be able to locate the source. When losing prime the air leak will almost alway be on the suction side. A worn out shaft seal at the impella could be the source but more than likely not since you'll have a a little water leaking from it. The seal could go bad after a hot dry run as you just experienced.

https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=mechanics stethoscope

Yeah I don't see any water leaking whatsoever. Weird. There are few connections before the pump, but the hose clamps are super tight. I suppose one could still be leaking a tiny tiny amount of air. It probably doesn't need all that much air and over a 12 hour period I could see a small leak causing issues.

Any advice on a check valve or the pump flapper? Almost every install I've seen online has one right before the pump. Would that help? If I put it first thing in line after the line comes in from the tank, it should keep the grey water at that height as long as there isn't a leak in the line into the house. Then the pump would only have to draw like 2 feet of hose between the check and the pump. Wonder if that would help at all? It's so hard when almost no one has these setups. Everyone has a pit inside the house and a submersible.

Thanks!

 

[WorthFlorida]

I at one time had a irrigation pump and even after changing the very expensive 2" brass check valve it was still losing prime on and off for about a year. As it turned out the check valve would not always close in the horizontal position just before the pump intake. A cheap plastic spring loaded one replaced it and no more problems thereafter. It wouldn't hurt to add a check valve before the pump.

 

[HiQ]

Whoa.. So I found a place locally that actually had the flapper in stock. Figured it would be a simple job to do when I got home tonight at like 8:30 PM. Wrong! Just finished up at 11PM. The top bolt was actually incredibly loose and the bottom one immediately broke in the pump. Awesome. The old flapper was encased in black crusty build up and wouldn't have been doing anything useful at all. I chipped some of the black crap away and cleaned up the mating surfaces. Then I did everything to attempt to remove that bolt. Ended up having to slowly drill it out and tap it again. I think I actually lined up the drill pretty good and was able to use the same size bolt and everything. Kind of amazed actually. Got the new flapper in and bolted everything back up. Fingers crossed this solves my issue. I also ordered a nice Zoeller check valve to potentially add in front of the pump in the future it not. I will definitely be looking for a decent price on the 1/2HP model to upgrade to sometime soon ish. This one must be just jammed full of that hard black crust. Thanks for all your help WorthFlorida. I'll try to remember to update this thread if things are good or not.

 

[WorthFlorida]

Bigger is not always better. What will a 1/2 hp do for you that a 1/3 hp cannot do. 1/2 will pump more water but can the inlet pipe handle the increased flow. You may have more short cycling that shortens the life of a motor. If 1/3 hp works don’t fix what not broke.

 

[HiQ]

True but we got a larger water pump (1HP Gould’s) and Csv a while back and can over run the ejector pump now. It currently runs for a good ten minutes each time to pump down the tank. I can’t see a 1/2HP causing a short cycle. Maybe just decreasing runtime to 8-9 minutes? We just don’t want to be able to blow past the high water level if it starts to pump and we’re using a bunch of water. If that makes sense. The differences looked to be maybe 10-15 more gpms going from 1/3 to 1/2.

 

[Randy Schneider]

Lots of places for pump to lose prime,Ive installed many of these septic tank pump systems,now I’m having same problem,float control adjusted,flap valve replaced,all connections tight,another problem is the elbow screwed into tank,I used to use galvanized elbow over plastic or nylon for durability,problem is the galvanized elbow will eventually break down and leak causing air leak,later years used heavy duty nylon elbow,my system is 45 years old,might try inline CV as last resort before digging up and replacing elbow and possibly tank,since the tank was one of a batch of poorly made concrete ones of which I replaced many.