Putting new boiler up on blocks?

[JohnCT]

Is there any disadvantage for installing a new boiler on blocks, maybe 4 inches high? My concrete basement floor is perfectly flat and dry, but the new boiler has an inlet close to the floor, and as long as I'm going to change it, it might be easier to work on if it was up in the air a bit.

My plan was to buy some solid 4X8X16" concrete blocks and use some thinset mortar to adhere the blocks to the floor and to each other. I do NOT want to pour a base.

I did Google the issue and saw a lot of conflicting information about combustion mixture changing if the boiler is raised, but I don't see how this would happen on an oil fired burner (Beckett AFG). This will be a SlantFin that has the firebox encircled with a water jacket, so the bottom of the boiler is relatively cool if that makes any difference.

John

 

[Reach4]

For your prospective base, you might look at "patio block" and "condenser pad" as alternatives available.

I have no information on how that would affect combustion air. Is there an option for outside combustion air? That reduces cold air infiltration around the house.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[JohnCT]

For your prospective base, you might look at "patio block" and "condenser pad" as alternatives available.

I have no information on how that would affect combustion air. Is there an option for outside combustion air? That reduces cold air infiltration around the house.

I looked at home centers, but they no longer carry concrete AC pads, just the plastic ones, which is why I turned my attention to the solid 4X8X16 concrete blocks.

Right now, there is no provision for outside air. Beckett says that unless the house is unusually tight, then no outside air provision is required. My house was built in '93 and is tighter than a 50s home probably, but it's not anything out of the ordinary. As an aside, I was thinking about putting a powered vent near the burner so any outside air pulled in during burner operation wouldn't be through the upstairs living area gaps.

John

 

[Sylvan]

A house keeping pad under a boiler is just common decency BUT it should not be cinder blocks

Normally it is a form made 4" deep an 4" high

Here is one we installed over 20 years ago

 

[Sylvan]

Have you tried looking into a "fan in a can" as this is what we used for the boiler above . When they call for heat the fan kicks in to bring in enough free air for proper combustion

https://www.google.com/search?ei=kM...QaqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&gs_ivs=1&sclient=psy-ab#tts=0

 

[GoingQuiet]

This is one formula that a building official would use to verify quantity of combustion air available.
https://www.nfpa.org/~/media/Files/forms%20and%20premiums/54/54HB15_CH28_SUPP4_WS3.pdf

About the boiler blocks, I usually get four delivered with each three section boiler. Stack two on each side under the casting feet, same feet they use to bolt the boiler to the shipping pallet. It’s easier to work on the burner if there’s two layers of boiler blocks underneath.

 

[GoingQuiet]

Just installed the boiler pictured below. Very sturdy. Set the boiler in place where I wanted it first. Leaned the boiler to one side to install the first block, then teeter up on that block while leaning the boiler the other way to get the next block in and repeat the process for as many 4” tall boiler blocks that you want.

I suppose that if you were in a geographic area prone to seismic vibrations then you’d make a square out of four blocks and alternate the pattern with each 4” lift to interlock the base.

Switch to a 6 block rectangle for a longer boiler like a 4, 5 or 6 section.

About the combustion air, total btu value of all fuel burning appliances goes into the formula along with the room cubic footage to pass or require makeup air.

If you need additional combustion air and have it available from an adjacent basement room (give me cubic feet) it may be possible to lean on that adjacent room by installing two 10”x10” louvered grilles in diagonally opposite corners of a wall between those two rooms. A lot less money than a fan in a can and a bit less money than an engineered combustion air kit piped from outdoors to the burner air intake.

 

[Sylvan]

The reason I do not care to use concrete blocks because the original floor may not be level and placing blocks on a slightly pitch floor is not a great idea for any appliance

By making your cement pad you can make sure it is perfectly level.

Of course this takes more time but it will last over 30 years

 

[WorthFlorida]

It's always good to get at least some of the combustible air from the outside no matter how. How tight the house can be gauged buy how good the windows and doors are. A fresh air supply allows a good draft up the chimney, if not the combustion exhaust can creep into the home especially when the clothes dryer is in use and it's pulling a few hundred cubic feet of air out of the home. The replacement air needs to come from somewhere. It's remarkable that there aren't more carbon monoxide poisonings.

 

[JohnCT]

The reason I do not care to use concrete blocks because the original floor may not be level and placing blocks on a slightly pitch floor is not a great idea for any appliance

By making your cement pad you can make sure it is perfectly level.

Of course this takes more time but it will last over 30 years

I would prefer a poured slab, but this is a project I'd like to get done in one day, so I figured the solid concrete blocks and thinset would be about as good. Pouring a slab would add another day to the project. I get the uneven floor issue can cause point loading of blocks, but I would say my basement floor is as about as flat as one would reasonably expect.

Thanks.

John

 

[JohnCT]

Just installed the boiler pictured below. Very sturdy. Set the boiler in place where I wanted it first. Leaned the boiler to one side to install the first block, then teeter up on that block while leaning the boiler the other way to get the next block in and repeat the process for as many 4” tall boiler blocks that you want.

I suppose that if you were in a geographic area prone to seismic vibrations then you’d make a square out of four blocks and alternate the pattern with each 4” lift to interlock the base.

Switch to a 6 block rectangle for a longer boiler like a 4, 5 or 6 section.

About the combustion air, total btu value of all fuel burning appliances goes into the formula along with the room cubic footage to pass or require makeup air.

If you need additional combustion air and have it available from an adjacent basement room (give me cubic feet) it may be possible to lean on that adjacent room by installing two 10”x10” louvered grilles in diagonally opposite corners of a wall between those two rooms. A lot less money than a fan in a can and a bit less money than an engineered combustion air kit piped from outdoors to the burner air intake.

That looks great, but that's higher than I planned to go. I was going to use four 4"X8"X16" blocks side by side and mortar them together and to the floor to kinda/sorta replicate the look if not the performance of a slab.

Thanks.

John

 

[JohnCT]

It's always good to get at least some of the combustible air from the outside no matter how. How tight the house can be gauged buy how good the windows and doors are. A fresh air supply allows a good draft up the chimney, if not the combustion exhaust can creep into the home especially when the clothes dryer is in use and it's pulling a few hundred cubic feet of air out of the home. The replacement air needs to come from somewhere. It's remarkable that there aren't more carbon monoxide poisonings.

Right now, a couple of the exterior doors (original to the house) have issues with weather stripping, so right now it's not that tight at all. Those will be replaced before winter. But I was thinking of introducing a bit of outside air in the basement through a vent instead of getting the outside air from the upstairs living area of the house. Same amount of air for the burner, but the draw would be from the basement. My understanding is that frigid air can throw off the tuning of the burner, so I was thinking about venting from across the basement using a metal duct and have the incoming air tempered a bit.

Thanks.

John

 

[JohnCT]

Have you tried looking into a "fan in a can" as this is what we used for the boiler above . When they call for heat the fan kicks in to bring in enough free air for proper combustion

https://www.google.com/search?ei=kM...QaqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&gs_ivs=1&sclient=psy-ab#tts=0

Wow, never saw one of those, but I really like the concept.

In a related subject, does it make sense to have the technician set up the boiler when the weather is cold? I'm going to install the new boiler this week and was planning to have a pro adjust it for me, but I wonder if I should wait until the weather is cold, particularly if I use the fan in a can device. I can eyeball the burner for now but I wonder if I should wait to have it set up professionally until the cold weather hits.

Thanks again.

John

 

[Sylvan]

John the boiler posted was over 800,000 BTU input as it was for a warehouse with a wet sprinkler system so having a freeze up was not an option

Because it was in a bad area of the Bronx the building owner did not want the normal fresh air duct as someone could remove the outside cover and crawl into the building

The fan in the can was wired to kick in prior to the boiler calls for heat

I would fired the system up prior to winter setting in to make sure all the air is vented out on a hot water system

If it is a steam system you want to make sure the steam traps are working is you have any and make sure all the air vents are also working


We had a few cases where someone removed an old HB Smith pork chop boiler covered from coal to oil and then to gas .

When the new owner decided to install a higher efficiency boiler the installer did not consider the condensate returning and it kept flooding the system and lots of hydraulic shocks

There for test it before you actually need it


I do know a great HVAC in CT who is licensed and insured

 

[JohnCT]

John the boiler posted was over 800,000 BTU input as it was for a warehouse with a wet sprinkler system so having a freeze up was not an option

Because it was in a bad area of the Bronx the building owner did not want the normal fresh air duct as someone could remove the outside cover and crawl into the building

The fan in the can was wired to kick in prior to the boiler calls for heat

I would fired the system up prior to winter setting in to make sure all the air is vented out on a hot water system

If it is a steam system you want to make sure the steam traps are working is you have any and make sure all the air vents are also working


We had a few cases where someone removed an old HB Smith pork chop boiler covered from coal to oil and then to gas .

When the new owner decided to install a higher efficiency boiler the installer did not consider the condensate returning and it kept flooding the system and lots of hydraulic shocks

There for test it before you actually need it


I do know a great HVAC in CT who is licensed and insured

Thanks Sylvan. The guy who built my house in 1993 is still doing HVAC (master plumber) as well as general contracting, and I was going to have him set up the new boiler as he has all the modern combustion equipment to do it right. The original boiler he put in back in '93 still runs perfectly but I had the chamber break up during a late ignition - which I patched back together with refractory cement, but I don't trust it, that's why I'm replacing the boiler now.

My plan was to have him set up the boiler next week after it has a few hours on it and after I have the chimney cleaned. I've been eyeballing Becketts and Carlins for 40 years and could get it close but realize that no one (with my experience anyway) can eyeball it like it should be, but I can get it close enough to let it run until the weather gets cold if you think that the season will have any effect on the final tune if I supply some direct outside air.

Again, I really appreciate all the advice.

John

 

[Sylvan]

I used Carlin and Becket both are great burners . For my own old oil burner 12 section H B Smith I used a Becket 2.25 GPH firing rate