Pressure switches and floats

[Dragos2017]

Hi all,

I'm really new to this, so if I don't explain something well enough, chances are I don't understand it..

I could really use some help in understanding how my system works as a whole.

I have two current problems with my setup. First, the well pump (underground) isn't working. Second, the pump that moves water from the cistern to the pressure tank doesn't always kick in when it needs to. I believe the pump works ok.

My setup: I have a 212 ft well and the pump is about at 208. I have a static water level of about 92 ft. I don't know the strength of the pump - I moved into the setup.

I have a 2500 gallon cistern with three float switches. We've been hauling water for about a month now.. and it's time to get this stuff fixed.

I checked the capacitor on the Pump control box and it was shot- so I replaced it, thinking it was an easy win. I also removed the pump saver that was attached and tried it without- still didn't work. I remembered that I had to replace that capacitor several months ago. Got me thinking that maybe the relay was bad, but I don't know how to test it and I haven't bough a backup control box yet.. I figure I would get one and switch the cover and see if it kicked in. Regardless, it still didn't work. All the voltage checks out though. (L1 and 2, RYB)

Then yesterday, family calls me at work and says we're out of water. I go home, and the cistern is still full, but there's zero pressure in the house. I grab the middle float and flip it, and the pressurizing pump kicks in. Is that going to be a float problem, or a pressure switch replacement? I bought a new pressure switch last night, and will install this weekend.

While I'm at the cistern, I flip the top float switch and it sounds like a broken Christmas decoration. It definitely did not sound like the other two with the distinctive "click". I *believe* that float switch operates the 'call for water' for the sub pump. If that's damaged, maybe that's the problem? How hard is it to replace the top float switch in a cistern? (I couldn't find anything on YouTube)

And in my ignorance, I have to ask- are the float switches connected directly to the pressure switches, and I have two- because I have two pumps? I have A- which I think is connected to my sub pump, and B- which kicks in when I flip the middle float switch in the cistern. You'd think it would be reversed looking at the picture.

Any help would be very much appreciated. Thank you in advance!

 

[Reach4]

Commonly, the submersible pump would be controlled by one or maybe 2 float switches. It would fill the cistern. With 1 float switch, the switch is tethered at some point below water, and the switch goes on and off as the tether swings down enough or up enough. A second switch could be near the top to serve as a safety in case the main switch fails "on". Alternatively, there could be a controller that used a lower switch as a go-on and upper switch as a go-off. You would want to inspect the wiring to decide what is going on.

The pressure pump would be controlled by the pressure switch, but could also be inhibited by a float switch to shut down the pressure pump if the cistern runs low. I expect B is the pressure switch being used, and A is only serving as a connection box.

Your thoughts about the top pressure switch sound right.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Valveman]

The well pump should be wired directly to the upper float switch. The bottom switch should be a safety shut off for the booster pump in case the cistern runs dry. But I don't know why the middle switch would have any effect on the booster pump. The well pump does not need a pressure tank or a pressure switch. Here is the way I would set it up, and I would only use one float switch at the top as a Cycle Sensor will work instead of the safety switch at the bottom. If your well pump is working with a pressure tank and pressure switch, it maybe cycling on and off while the cistern is filling, which would be the reason your pump has been destroyed.

 

[Dragos2017]

That's a much better design I think, thank you!

I should mention that the Pressure Switch Labled "B" only has 2 wires hooked up to it. I thought there were usually 4? Switch A has the two and two.

 

[Reach4]

I should mention that the Pressure Switch Labled "B" only has 2 wires hooked up to it. I thought there were usually 4? Switch A has the two and two.

If the pump is 230 volt, yes, switching 2 wires is required. If you only switch one of the wires, it still works, but it is not right.

If the pump is 115 volt, no, switching only the hot is normal. If you measure across the open contacts, you can see if you have 240 or 120 volts. If you have under 90 volts, then power is not making it to that pressure switch, or the switch is closed=on.

 

[Dragos2017]

Thanks! The float switch came today. It has 3 wires, my old one has two. I'm thinking I might have a 3/4 HP pump- is this still going to work? How would I wire it?

 

[Reach4]

1. Is the pump powered from 120 vac, or 240?
2. What is the switch that you received?

 

[Dragos2017]

I'm not sure if it's 240 or 120.. How can I tell? The switch that arrived:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KUR867W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I hope its the right one. I tried to find a 3/4 HP Potable switch and I'm having problems locating anything for potable water.

 

[Reach4]

I'm not sure if it's 240 or 120.. How can I tell?

Let's see a photo of the inside of that big gray metal box on the wooden post. We might get a clue from that.

Your float switch might just control a relay, which in turn controls the pump.

 

[Dragos2017]

Here we go.

 

[Dragos2017]

And Im thinking it's the float switch.. I did buy a box and swapped lids to no effect. I tested the float switch with the youtube video, and I only get OL When I flip the switch for a second, and then lots of random values. I think I'm getting closer!

 

[Dragos2017]

Im sorry, I misunderstood. I know the pump is 240- And L1 and L2 terminals are producing 121.3 each.

 

[Reach4]

Two 2-pole relays in the box! I have not figured out how they are being used. I think the coil connections are probably on the left and right sides of each relay. Anyway, with such a relay, you can control a 240 volt load with a 120 volt control, such as the float switch.

I think trying to make a wiring diagram of what you have will be useful now and in the future. Maybe you are already figuring this out.

I also note that by the B (not the arrow) is a well cap. I suspect you have a pitless adapter down there. Normally you would want the casing extended above ground so that any flooding does not go into the well.

Your later posts seem to indicate you are making good progress. I did not follow it all, but I think you are on the right track.

 

[Dragos2017]

I checked something on the box just now- I kept the multi meter at OHMS and checked R-Y-B wires to ground. They all say OL. (Im assuming overload)? Does that mean the pump has a short in it?

 

[Reach4]

I checked something on the box just now- I kept the multi meter at OHMS and checked R-Y-B wires to ground. They all say OL. (Im assuming overload)? Does that mean the pump has a short in it?

You should never use a meter set on OHMS for a powered circuit.

If the circuit was in fact not powered, what does the meter say when you don't connect the probes to anything?

 

[Dragos2017]

So basically just turn on the meter on OHMS? O.L

 

[Reach4]

So basically just turn on the meter on OHMS? O.L

So in Ohms, on that meter, OL indicates a resistance more than the max for the meter. The max may be 19.99 megohm.

 

[Dragos2017]

Ok. From Y-B Im getting 4 ohms. R-Y I'm getting 12.5 and each one gives me OL when touched to ground. I'm hoping thats a good thing. I have a
Etekcity MSR-C600 Digital Clamp Meter.

 

[Reach4]

Ok. From Y-B Im getting 4 ohms. R-Y I'm getting 12.5 and each one gives me OL when touched to ground. I'm hoping thats a good thing.

OL is a good thing in that case. Anything over 100,000 ohms is good for that purpose. Your meter is showing over 19,990,000 ohms.

 

[Dragos2017]

I really appreciate your help, thanks Reach4! I'll play around with the float. If I can't wire it - I'll try to get a OEM replacement. I had ordered it thinking the floats had universal wiring..