Poor Water Quality and Lining 4" PVC Well

[TJanak]

Thanks Reach.

No room for flow inducer in 4" casing. I'm guess pump will be set at 40-50' based on the other well. If static is 10'-15' then pumping level may be 20'-30'? That would equal 120' TDH or so? First time looking at pump curves today.

My concern is that I plan to do a significant amount of irrigation. That is why I've gone to the expense to find better quality water. I wonder how close I can cut it on GPM. I'm getting greedy but would prefer 16 gpm over 12. If he jetted around 20 would a 13GS07 be a good pump to install?

 

[Reach4]

Part of the consideration is how much pressure you want topside. Impact sprinklers like a lot of pressure. Drip irrigation needs very little pressure. A lot of other stuff is in between.

In using the graphs, I often remember that 140 ft of head is about 60 psi.

No room for flow inducer in 4" casing.

I wonder if anybody has done that with a 3 inch SQ pump. Are your casing slots going to be higher than the pump (top feeding well)?

 

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[Valveman]

I would set the end of the motor at 42', which is above the screen and a flow inducer won't be needed. Figuring a max pumping depth of 40', a total head of 120' would give you 34 PSI for your irrigation. That 13GS07 would pump about 16 GPM at that pressure. I think you may want the 13GS10 so you could get 16 GPM at up to 60 PSI as Reach suggested.

This is when a Cycle Stop Valve can be very important. With the 13GS07 you need to set up every irrigation zone to use exactly 16 GPM at 34 PSI. With the 13GS10 you need every irrigation zone to run at 16 GPM and 60 PSI. Matching the amount of water being used with the output of the pump is the only way to keep the pump from cycling itself to death without using a CSV. The CSV1A will tune your pump to match the irrigation instead of you having to tune the irrigation to match the pump.

The CSV1A can be adjusted to deliver anything from 15 PSI to 150 PSI constant pressure with the simple turn of the adjustment bolt. With the 13GS10 you could adjust it from 15 PSI to 60 PSI, as 60 PSI is the most that pump can do at 16 GPM. The CSV1A can be set to 15 PSI for a drip system, 35 PSI for pop ups, or 60 PSI for some gear operated sprinklers. Once the required pressure is set, the CSV1A then varies the flow from the pump to match the amount being used. So, you can still use 16 GPM in the back yard, but you can also use 8 GPM on the side yard and a 2 GPM bubbler in the front driveway, and the CSV will make the pump do whatever you want without cycling.

Now that you have some water to work with, you should be able to use it anyway you want.

 

[TJanak]

Cary the CSV makes sense and my plan would be to install one myself after the fact.

For the sake of my understanding, what happens with no CSV and the pressure tank is at 40 psi and pumping level is 30' with the 13GS10? That is 122' TDH and according to the curve posted above I'm practically at 20 GPM and risk overpumping the well and upthrust in the pump, right?

With the 10GS07 in that scenario I'm at 17 GPM which is hopefully within the well's capacity and within the pump curve. I guess the issue is at 60 psi and ~170' TDH I'm only at 12 GPM?

So I guess the solution is CSV at 60 psi with the 10GS10 giving me 170' TDH giving me 17-18 GPM. And hope I don't over pump the well.

 

[Valveman]

With a static water level of 10' you don't want to run even the 1/2HP pump wide open. Pumping more than about 16 GPM with any 10 GPM pump will cause upthrust, not cavitation, but still not good. Just put a 15 GPM Dole valve on it and you can run either pump in the new well. You can also just use a ball valve and set the flow to 15 GPM max.

A 1/2HP needs about 80' of head or 35 PSI minimum on it to keep from upthrusting. A 1HP needs a minimum of 160' or 70 PSI to work properly. When using a pressure tank/pressure switch at 40/60, the 40 PSI minimum is the same as 92' of head. So, the 1/2HP would not need the Dole valve when running a pressure tank or sprinklers at 40 PSI. But the 1HP would still need the Dole valve from such a shallow well.

With static at 10', 40 PSI is not enough to keep the the 10GS07 or the 13GS10 from going into upthrust. And there is nothing to keep you from opening up too much water, which will make the pump upthrust. I would add a 15-16 GPM Dole valve prior to the CSV to limit the max flow no matter how many faucets you open. Then the CSV will vary the flow from 1 to 16 GPM matching what is being used and eliminating the cycles.

 

[TJanak]

Thinking it over this morning that makes the most sense. 13GS10 with 15 GPM Dole valve gets me 15 GPM no matter my total head. Slightly more expensive for the 1 HP but what the heck at this point.

Measured static last night is actually 6'. I was guessing 10' looking in the well, which is close considering I didn't account for the casing extending 3' above grade.

Now if my well guy will agree to the 13GS10 with Dole valve.

 

[Valveman]

Using the 15 GPM Dole valve there is no reason you can't use the 10GS10 pump you already have. If nothing else you can use the 1HP motor and just replace the 10GS10 pump end with a 13GS10 pump end. No reason not to use as much of what you have as you can.

 

[TJanak]

13GS10 installed with 15 GPM Dole and pumping. I will hook up the generator and run it all day today and pull a sample for analysis just to see.

2o amp breaker needed? Chart shows FLA is 8.1

I plan to move the tank and pressure switch into the garage. Ideally I'd like to move the control box inside as well and only have two conduits come out of the well seal, 90 over, 90 down into the ground and run into the garage. Keeps the control box from rusting apart out here in 3 years and will somewhat "hurricane proof" the wellhead from blowing tree limbs wiping out a control box. Is there a good way to make the junction from the sub cable to my THWN without sticking another junction box on top of the seal?

 

[Reach4]

Is there a good way to make the junction from the sub cable to my THWN without sticking another junction box on top of the seal?

Put a junction box along side if the wires are long enough?

You are very unlikely to do so, but if you put in a thruway pitless above ground on the casing, the splicing would happen under the well cap.

That well casing looks tilted in the photo.

 

[TJanak]

Put a junction box along side if the wires are long enough?

You are very unlikely to do so, but if you put in a thruway pitless above ground on the casing, the splicing would happen under the well cap.

That well casing looks tilted in the photo.

Casing looks that in way in person too. I'm going with the theory that they were attempting horizontal drilling. More screen in the water sand?

And would it kill anyone to make a perpendicular cut at the top of a well casing??? Crap, you can see how much the control box is leaning due to the crooked cut.

I do like the idea of a junction box beside the casing. I'm thinking a pvc box along side the casing so it's sealed up and can even be screwed to blocking that can be clamped to the casing if I so desire. Thanks Reach.

 

[Valveman]

13GS10 installed with 15 GPM Dole and pumping. I will hook up the generator and run it all day today and pull a sample for analysis just to see.

2o amp breaker needed? Chart shows FLA is 8.1

I plan to move the tank and pressure switch into the garage. Ideally I'd like to move the control box inside as well and only have two conduits come out of the well seal, 90 over, 90 down into the ground and run into the garage. Keeps the control box from rusting apart out here in 3 years and will somewhat "hurricane proof" the wellhead from blowing tree limbs wiping out a control box. Is there a good way to make the junction from the sub cable to my THWN without sticking another junction box on top of the seal?

View attachment 67362

Looks good but I don't see the Dole valve or the Cycle Stop Valve? And your pressure switch is too far from the tank.

 

[TJanak]

He put the Dole valve in the drop pipe as a coupling. Said he does that due to the noise they make. I told him I know they are noisy but it doesn't bother me. I didn't argue too much.

I'm moving the tank and switch in the garage, they will be closer to each other at that time. He did tell me to keep the switch with the tank though...

I asked him his opinion on CSV's and he said he's not a fan. Fine, I'll add that later when I move things around.

Told him running it wide open I hear somewhat of a sucking sound in the casing and output measures more like 12 GPM. He said it's pulling a vortex down and sucking some air, but it will run fine like that and the pump has a 5 year warranty. He set it on two joints of pipe so at 40' it's still 6' or so above the top of the screen. Said he'd have to thread a pipe to lower it, but it's fine as is. Guess he didn't want to come back out. Looks like I'll be finding a piece of threaded SCH 80 and doing it myself. He seems like somewhat of a hothead, so don't want to piss him off when I need something in the future. It's a shame I think like that, but he's a lot better than the first driller I used for the salty well that wanted me to buy two pressure tanks for more pressure and screened 60' through multiple layers of sand and clay kinda like a cover your ass approach. I believe that's why it is salty.

No other real options around here. I should buy me a drilling rig and go into business. I just love this stuff, it's fascinating.

 

[Valveman]

I should buy me a drilling rig and go into business. I just love this stuff, it's fascinating.

Sounds like you wouldn't have much competition. Lol! It is good, but also sad that you know more than all the well guys in your area. If you want to get your license I would sponsor you. Otherwise you nearly have to be born into a pump/drilling business to be able to get your license. Actual intelligence should be more important to getting a well driller/pump license than nepotism, but it isn't. That is a big part of the problem. It is pretty obvious drillers/pump guys don't have to know what they are doing to get a license.