New construction and needing help!

[Valveman]

J10S or J15S with a PK1A control kit.

 

[Uphill]

So just recapping out loud. Instead of going with a storage tank out of the gate... I should try a jet pump with a csv and pressure tank.

Knowing I have 12-15 psi where the temporary hydrant is below the house, mount the pump in line there. It’s basically in the front yard so I will have to run power out there to the pump and get some kind of pretty cover to put over it.

Are there any more reliable jet pumps out there that are a bit cheaper I could go with? Or better yet anyone care to list the ideal pump spec requirements I would need. I do think 7 GPM would be plenty for our household. Typically there will be 1 shower and an alliance, possibly a toilet flush going at the same time at the most.

thanks so much again!

 

[Sponsor]

 

[wwhitney]

Knowing I have 12-15 psi where the temporary hydrant is below the house, mount the pump in line there. It’s basically in the front yard so I will have to run power out there to the pump and get some kind of pretty cover to put over it.

No particular need to put it right there, but it would be helpful to put it at a similar elevation, or just a few feet higher. I think if the backup plan is to add storage in front of the pump, the determining factor would be where you could fit a storage tank.

Or maybe it doesn't matter because it would be easy to move the pump, not sure how much rework that would require. If it's easy to temporarily hook up the pump, you could try it and see what gpm you get out of it. Then decide based on that whether you need storage, and based on that where everything goes.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Uphill]

It would be ideal to have the pump under roof. Know this.. This past weekend I put a 100' 5/8 (i believe) garden hose on the hydrant and carried it up in the slab. The hose was much longer than it needed to be to get there so there were alot of unnecessary coils in the hose. When I screwed the gauge to it I was getting about 3-5 psi.. Not much flow coming out of the business end. What I could do if I can find the pump I need I could hook it to the hydrant and use a generator to play with different locations I guess?

 

[wwhitney]

It would be ideal to have the pump under roof. Know this.. This past weekend I put a 100' 5/8 (i believe) garden hose on the hydrant and carried it up in the slab. The hose was much longer than it needed to be to get there so there were alot of unnecessary coils in the hose. When I screwed the gauge to it I was getting about 3-5 psi.

Without flow, the coils in the hose and all don't matter. If your hydrant gauge is at 13 psi, and your gauge lying on the slab is 5 psi, that just tells you that your slab is 18' higher than your hydrant. 1 psi = 2.3', so a difference of 8 psi = 8 * 2.3'.

[And if that's not possibly true, the difference is due to fluctuations in the city water pressure. In which case I suggest leaving a pressure gauge on the hydrant over night, one that has high and low indicating needles, assuming that exists. I know you can get them with high indicators. You don't want to do a design based on getting 10 psi at the hydrant, only to find that it periodically falls to 0 psi there. In fact, if that's a significant possibility, you might want a backup jet pump to fill a cistern for that case, then a submersible pump to supply water to the house.]

What I could do if I can find the pump I need I could hook it to the hydrant and use a generator to play with different locations I guess?

If the hydrant is the lowest elevation point you can reasonably tap into your water line and run electricity to, then checking at that location is sufficient. You just need to know, given the suction capacity of a jet pump, how low down (and far away) the jet pump would have to be to reliably produce the gpm you decide you need (be it 7 gpm or 10 gpm or whatever. Any irrigation?). And part of that "reliably" means knowing if the city water pressure fluctuates.

Then you can decide between running electricity out to that pump location, or adding storage at a higher location where you'd prefer to have all the equipment.

If running power farther than the hydrant to a lower elevation is an option, but it would be hard to test because you'd have to tap into the lateral there, which is not worth doing for a single test, we can reasonably predict the results based on a test at the hydrant. You just need to know how much lower in elevation the alternate location is, how much less lateral pipe is ahead of the alternate location, the exact ID of the lateral pipe, and probably the pump curve for the jet pump.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Valveman]

The more pressure that enters the pump the better. But you really only need 1-2 PSI to make it work. Put the pump where you want it and give it a try.

 

[wwhitney]

The more pressure that enters the pump the better. But you really only need 1-2 PSI to make it work. Put the pump where you want it and give it a try.

That's true if "make it work" means get 5 gpm out of it. Because the frictional loss on a 1300' plastic pipe with 1.0" ID is 11 psi at 5 gpm.

But if more than 5 gpm is desired or useful, then the pump will have to be at an elevation where there's more than 1-2 PSI to start with. Or storage will be required. Then the question becomes, at the elevation required for the supply to have enough initial pressure to provide the desired flow (if more than 5 gpm), and the corresponding distance from the house, which is less hassle: putting the pump out there so that storage can be omitted, or putting storage and the pump at the house?

To the OP, it would helpful if you could provide the exact ID of your 1" Poly water lateral. Or provide the full specification, so we can look up the exact ID.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Uphill]

13/16” ID and 1 1/8” OD

 

[wwhitney]

Ah, sorry I was assuming this was something like Schedule 40 sizing, where the ID is around the nominal size. I would think, given the length, that 1-1/2" or 2" nominal pipe would have provided better performance.

With only a 13/16" ID and 1300' of length, 4 gpm gives a pressure loss of 20 psi. So if you set a jet pump where the gauge reads 10 psi statically, you'll only be able to get 4 gpm out of the jet pump.

Assuming that's not enough, you'll need storage. If you set the storage at a location where the static pressure is 1.5 psi (or greater), you'll get 1 gpm (or greater) flow into your storage without assistance. Then maybe a submersible pump is a better choice for feeding the house? (Not my area of knowledge).

If for some reason the city pressure drops too much, you'll need a jet pump or other high suction pump on the inlet side of the storage to fill it. So reserving a space for installation of one in the future might be wise.

Cheers, Wayne

P.S. I've been using this calculator for the frictional pressure loss calculations:

http://irrigation.wsu.edu/Content/Calculators/General/Pipeline-Pressure-Loss.php

 

[Reach4]

With only a 13/16" ID and 1300' of length, 4 gpm gives a pressure loss of 20 psi. So if you set a jet pump where the gauge reads 10 psi statically, you'll only be able to get 4 gpm out of the jet pump.

13/16” ID and 1 1/8” OD

Maybe like this... or similar in black
https://www.menards.com/main/plumbi...ble-water-poly-pipe/59250/p-1444431563588.htm