Need some advise

[Lyman]

Hi Terry! I am a 75 year old man that has been struggling with a 14 foot dug well with a shallow well pump for the for over 30 years and have decide to install a submersible pump to solve the issue I have had. I picked out a Pentair 1/2 hp two wire pump for my use. I saw the picture of a pump strapped to two pieces of 4" pvc pipe and you mentioned that it should have been 3 pieces with the pump install in the top tube for flow enhancement. Is that the way to go because at this stage in my life I only what to do this once. I plan to lay the assembly on the gravel floor of the well in a horizontal configuration . There was also some mention about check valves at the outlet of the pump. If the pump has one built in do I need to add another? Currently my shallow well configuration uses one in the well and one at the pump. I have an expansion tank on the outlet of the pump. I was hoping that I could just pump up from the well and right thru the existing pump to minimize plumping changes. I have installed a 30-50 switch on my main water line out of the existing pump to control the new submersible pump in the well. I have only run a 10 awg two wire set from the house to the well at this stage. I could use some advice at this stage. Keep up the good work Terry! Lyman Brooks, Webster NH

 

[Valveman]

Sadly, Terry is no longer with us. But while he is greatly missed, he left this excellent forum so others could help you with your problem.

The flow inducer is a very important part of keeping a submersible motor cool in a large diameter well like that. The pump can then be installed vertically and held up from the well head, or laid on its side at the bottom of the well. Normally the check valve built into the pump is all you need. But flapper type checks do not work very well when installed horizontally. I would use a short nipple out of the pump to an elbow, and install an additional metal, spring loaded, check valve after the elbow on the vertical pipe.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Valveman]

Once the pump has been put in the flow inducer sleeve, then it can be laid on its side in a cradle of some kind if needed.

 

[Valveman]

I would not run the water through the old jet pump, as it will spin and turn into a generator. It will also restrict the flow. Most people use 40/60 these days, and turning the large adjustment screw in the pressure switch 3 turns to the right will make a 40/60 out of the 30/50 you already bought. As far as not having to do this again, keeping the pump from cycling on and off too much is the best way to make them last.

 

[Lyman]

Thank you for your input Cary! Sorry about the forums loss of Terry. Based on the picture, just adding another 4" tube to the configuration and inserting the pump into it is all I need to due? If I take the shallow well pump out of the picture, do I need a check valve were the water line comes in to the house like the one attached to the shallow well pump now? Thank you again

 

[Valveman]

With a submersible the only check valve you want is the one on the pump as in the picture. Yep, a flow sleeve or shroud is just a short piece of 4" thin wall PVC pipe, a 4.5" hose clamp, and a little pipe wrap or electric tape.

 

[Lyman]

Cary I just read about the tape over the hose clamp that secures the pump . It says to continue the tape up on to the pump. Is that done to close off the top side of the pipe so water only enters from the bottom?? If so then when I lay the assembly on its side I need to block water from entering the inducer from the outlet side of the pump?? Thank you again

 

[Reach4]

The tape blocks water for the reason that you said, plus it isolates the clamp from corrosion. Stainless steel clamps are sometimes not all stainless, and part can rust.

I think you are saying that your well was dug to the 14 ft depth. How far down is the water surface?

 

[Bannerman]

A submersible pump's electric motor, is located at the bottom as viewed when the pump is hanging vertically within the well casing. Although the entire pump will be fully submerged in water, to ensure adequate cooling for the motor, the water will need to be moving past the motor to carry heat away.

When a 4" sub pump is placed in a 4" bottom feeding well, there usually will be sufficient water flow past the motor to keep it cool as the water will be rising upward from below the motor, into the pump's inlet screen situated directly above the motor. When a similar well is feeding from above the pump or when the pump is placed in a larger diameter casing or inside a dug well, water will enter the inlet screen from the larger surrounding area so there will often be insufficient flow past the motor to ensure adequate cooling.

By placing the 4" flow inducer sleeve around the lower end of the pump unit and by sealing the sleeve to the pump above the inlet screen with clamps and tape, will ensure all of the water entering the pump's inlet screen will be forced to flow past the motor.

 

[Lyman]

Reply to Reach4: The level of the well never goes lower than 8' during the a dry season and usually is full in the spring unless drawn down after using it too much : like watering the garden. There is a limit!!
Reply to Bannerman: Thank you for your input. It clarifies what I was thinking.

 

[Reach4]

Is your dug well about 3 ft diameter?

I suspect your piping comes in thru the concrete wall of the well 3 to 4 ft below ground level to avoid freezing. It is possible to put a pitless adapter on a dug well.

 

[Lyman]

Hi there Reach4, We're too low to consider a pitless and have been down in the well a few time. It is a 3' dia well. Question : what would you see for a failure on a shallow well pump if the foot valve failed

 

[Reach4]

The pump could lose prime, or you might just have a dip in pressure when the pump turns on. More commonly, the symptom would be the pump cycles on and off as the water from the pressure tank goes back down the well.

I don't see "too low to use a pitless", unless you are using a drain back system as your means of preventing freezing. If you want to use a jet suction pump, that is good too. Submersibles are quieter and don't need priming. The submersible can be mounted horizontally. Either way, lacking a drain back system, the pipe should enter the well below the frost line to prevent freezing.

 

[Lyman]

Need some more help Please. The pump that I was going to use , a pentair 1/2 hp 220 volt and has a outside diameter of 3 7/8". The pvc pipe has a 4" inside diameter. If I use it as a flow inducer there is less than a total of 1/8" for the water to pass. Is there smaller diameter pump that I need to use??? This assembly is going to the bottom of the well with a total push up of 25'. Does it need a inducer??? to keep it cool. Been looking at the assembly pictured in this article with the two pvc pipes and the pump on top. No inducer used? I have little time due to CHEMO treatments and have a tenant waiting.

 

[Valveman]

That little 1/8" gap will let a lot of water pass. Won't be a problem. The closer to the bottom of the well you set the pump, the more important the flow inducer is.

 

[Reach4]

In https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/flow-inducer-sleeve.95740/ #2 I provide some numbers on the area that will remain between the inside of the flow inducer and the pump motor. You will see that the "annular" area has plenty of area.

 

[Lyman]

Thank you for the quick response Valve man and Reach4! I am just having trouble raping my mind around that small a clearance. I can't do this more than once. Does anyone know what type of pump is pictured? Thank you again

 

[Fitter30]

Submersible Well Pump For 4” ID well casing?

It looks like submersible well pumps are 4”dia range. Do they fit or are there smaller pumps for this casing size? I have a shallow well pump but I need to raise casing to above ground code and doing a pitless connection with submersible pump looks like one option.

terrylove.com

Wouldn't use a 3.875" pump in a 4" casing. 3" would be better. .0625 is just to close either side

 

[Reach4]

Submersible Well Pump For 4” ID well casing?

It looks like submersible well pumps are 4”dia range. Do they fit or are there smaller pumps for this casing size? I have a shallow well pump but I need to raise casing to above ground code and doing a pitless connection with submersible pump looks like one option.

terrylove.com

Wouldn't use a 3.875" pump in a 4" casing. 3" would be better. .0625 is just to close either side

This discussion is for a flow inducer. The casing would be at least 5 inches.

If you have a steel 4 inch casing, I would put in a 3 inch pump if I ever change my pump. But a 4 inch PVC casing can reliably accept a 3.875 pump, but no room for a flow inducer. That is OK if the well is bottom feeding.

 

[Valveman]

The pump is 3 7/8 because of the cable guard. The motor is only 3.5" and will have plenty of clearance in 4" pipe.