Lead & Oakum, What am I dealing here with?

[Stephen Majewski]

This is where my drain dives below the slab from 3" copper to 4" cast iron

I asked my local plumbing supplier and all he said is that it was some "old-timey stuff", either "oakem" or poured lead.

I tried unscrewing the plug with a 36" wrench and no-go.

I need to open up the cast iron for new ABS drain. Am I cutting/grinding it out?

House is from 1967

 

[Reach4]

If it is lead and oakum, the lead is on top, and the oakum is beneath. You drill out a section of lead with several holes , and then pry up.

I have not done it. To find prior posts, I suggest you search using at least three of these words in the search box above:
lead oakum drill donut

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Stephen Majewski]

Ah. So this isn't a threaded fitting like the clean out just below it.

So they jammed Oakum into the joint and then poured molten lead on top.

Old-timey stuff!

 

[Mr tee]

Drill some holes in the lead then pry it out. After that pry out the oakum, which is like oiled, shredded rope.

 

[Jadnashua]

YOu may need to make the lead more like swiss cheese, but eventually, you'll get things loose enough to get the pipe out of the hub. They leaded in the brass (bronze?) ferrule which is soldered to the copper pipe. FWIW, copper has a decent salvage value, so you may not want to just chuck it in the trash.

 

[Stephen Majewski]

YOu may need to make the lead more like swiss cheese, but eventually, you'll get things loose enough to get the pipe out of the hub. They leaded in the brass (bronze?) ferrule which is soldered to the copper pipe. FWIW, copper has a decent salvage value, so you may not want to just chuck it in the trash.

I'm finding that a 1/8" drill at multiple angles weakens the lead sufficiently that a thin screwdriver can pry it up. Slow going...

I'll probably donate my fittings to a salvage second-use store. Some of them cost 100's these days.

 

[Reach4]

I'm finding that a 1/8" drill at multiple angles weakens the lead sufficiently that a thin screwdriver can pry it up. Slow going...

An extra long 1/4 drill bit might help your approach angle, but a drill bit extension with a standard length bit might be as good.

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

That is a very thin line of lead they poured. Might be easier just to cut the copper up 3ft. and cut the bronze out with a sawzall.

 

[Jeff H Young]

That is a very thin line of lead they poured. Might be easier just to cut the copper up 3ft. and cut the bronze out with a sawzall.

Sounds like all the copper being demoed anyway . But I like the idea of wacking out a section of copper and holding the sawsall vertically cut a few places inside the fitting and pry it right out. If I'm catching Tuttles suggestion correctly? Pretty easy no matter which way you go but I think this would be quicker than the drilling out .
On another note I can't see these fittings selling for more than a few bucks at the junk store or habitat for humanity. I think scrapping out and donating cash would be better. kinda like donating junk cars the middle men eat up all the profit and a 100 dollar car likely brings under 100 bucks to the charity. Just my gut feeling on it if you actually care about the charity I'd scrap it out and give them the money

 

[Terry]

https://www.schnitzersteel.com/locations/128

You will want a different fitting for back to back toilets.
That copper might be worth $10
Gas to drive over to Woodinville where they take that, $4.00

 

[Jeff H Young]

I can't imagine a thrift store wanting used crap pipe? Yea just send it to landfill

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

https://www.schnitzersteel.com/locations/128

I jumped out of my pickup truck in that yard and landed on a steel spike that punctured my heel. Weeks later I was poking around at the wound and pulled out this solid white chunk... of tennis shoe sole! Was lucky it never got infected. Stupid teenager stuff!

 

[Stephen Majewski]

Ok, so maybe the fittings are just worth their weight in dirty brass.

I did get the connection out. Used some 6" long 1/8' mild steel drills from Harbor Freight. The bottom of that plug fitting is flared so it didn't just want to pull straight up.

The old bathrooms were called "Jack and Jill" where the master had a sliding door to the guest bath. I guess that was a thing back in the day.

I will post another picture of my new configuration for the two toilets for feedback

 

[Stephen Majewski]

This is the rough of the new configuration.

3"

First toilet gets an elbow into the manifold, second gets a sanitary tee.

That manifold also has a 2" air vent (shown) coming out of the top and another 1.5" connection for the guest sink.

What I haven't completely figured out is how to tie the 2" line from the other side that carries single sink and shower.

Thoughts?

 

[Reach4]

You are not allowed to use a sanitary tee like that.

Can you join the respective lavatory drains into the drainage of the respective toilet before joining other things? That way the vented lavatories wet-vent the toilets.

Do all of your joining with wyes or combos (wye+45 combined).

How about an overhead/plan view sketch showing the location of lavatories, showers, and toilets. Not to scale, but very roughly to scale.

 

[Stephen Majewski]

I'll work on a plan view.

So the main issue is that the tee is too vertical. I can replace that with a wye and a bend.

Otherwise can the tee inlet be horizontal with a 90 bend going up?

 

[Reach4]

Here is a sketch based on what I am thinking.

The toilet entrances into the stack can be santees too, rather than wyes as I drew.

 

[Sylvan]

A decent old plumbing supply will have a chisel that is offset with a sharp tapered ended

When you start to hit the top the chisel will dig into the lead and lift it up

Otherwise cut the copper close to the and then carefully cut the copper in the hub until you reach the lead,.

Do it in two places about 2" apart then with a flat screw driver knock out the split sections

PLACE A RAG inside the hub so nothing falls in

 

[Stephen Majewski]

Here is a sketch based on what I am thinking.

The toilet entrances into the stack can be santees too, rather than wyes as I drew.

I see what you're saying, which is to focus on tying into the vertical stack

I could do that, but then the basement wall becomes a forest of pipes, I'd like to try to find a solution with a horizontal manifold first.

The connections and venting for the top part of the sketch are ok, right? So the issue is mainly how to connect the other toilet?

Would a wye into the horizontal work?

Is the solution that the second lav drains into that toilet before it joins the horizontal so I have a wet vent?

 

[Reach4]

Would a wye into the horizontal work?

Yes. Transitions from vertical to horizontal must be long sweeps or 45s, so you need to pay attention to how you get horizontal. On the other hand, horizontal to vertical can be santees or medium bends in addition..

Is the solution that the second lav drains into that toilet before it joins the horizontal so I have a wet vent?

I think UPC requires that, where IPC (does not apply to you) lets you treat two bathrooms as a group for wet venting.