Issues with new Fleck 5800

[mbg225]

I recently installed my fleck 5800. During the regen cycle I noticed a couple things. during the back flush the drain water builds up the tube all the way to the valve. Is this okay?

Also my brine tank was full to the top with water, when I put it in brine draw mode there was actually water going into the tank. It wasn't drawing any brine water at all. How can I trouble shoot this? The system is 2 weeks new.

FYI I have an upflow carbon tank as well, if that affects anything.

 

[Reach4]

I recently installed my fleck 5800. During the regen cycle I noticed a couple things. during the back flush the drain water builds up the tube all the way to the valve. Is this okay?

Sure.

Also my brine tank was full to the top with water, when I put it in brine draw mode there was actually water going into the tank. It wasn't drawing any brine water at all. How can I trouble shoot this? The system is 2 weeks new.

Not ok! Involving the seller in troubleshooting is a good idea, especially if the problem requires parts.

You might check to see if the programming is set right. There are 3 different 5800s I know of: LXT, SXT, and XTR2. I have programmed none of these.

If not programming, could be various things. During the brine draw cycle, does water come out of the drain line? Might be 1/2 gallon per minute..., depending.


To break causes in two, maybe remove the brine line from the softener. See if you can suck brine with your mouth. Be prepared to rinse, but it is just salt water. Lower your mouth to a little above the brine level to minimize how much suck you need.

Some causes would cause air in the water. Some could be clogs.

Excessive water in brine tank.

• Plugged drain line flow control. Clean flow control.
• Plugged injector system. Clean injector and screen.
• Foreign material in brine valve. Replace brine valve seat and clean valve.
• Foreign material in brine line flow control. Clean brine line flow control.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[mbg225]

Sure.


If not programming, could be various things. During the brine draw cycle, does water come out of the drain line? Might be 1/2 gallon per minute..., depending.

Yes water does come out of the drain line during the brine draw. I pulled the brine line and sucked and was able to pull water. I also ran it in brine draw with out the line attached and water was definitely coming out of the brine line valve.

 

[Reach4]

Which controller do you have?

 

[mbg225]

Which controller do you have?

5800sxt....I have been trouble shooting it and i noticed it starts to draw but then gives up and reverses.

 

[Bannerman]

Dry carbon will be buoyant until it becomes waterlogged which will usually require soaking the carbon for up to 48 hours prior to use. New carbon will also contain many broken pieces and small particles - 'fines' - which need to be adequately flushed to drain though back-washing before the carbon tank is placed on-line. If an initial soaking and backwash are not performed thoroughly, then with an up-flow filter, those small pieces will pass through the filter's upper screen to flow to plumbing fixtures or to the softener if it is next-in-line.

As your up-flow filter does not have an ability to backwash to drain, it would need to be disconnected so as to connect a garden hose to the inlet port to backwash the media until no fines are further observed exiting the outlet port.

Assuming your softener follows the carbon filter, I suspect carbon debris has entered the softener's control valve and has accumulated in the brine screen and injector, and possibly around the valve piston. I would suggest initially removing, inspecting and cleaning the softener's brine screen, brine valve, BLFC restrictor and injector. After reassembly, perform a full resin Backwash and then allow the controller to advance to Brine Draw to determine if the condition has been corrected. If that has not resolved the brine draw issue, you then will likely need to remove the valve piston and seals to wash-out any remaining debris and inspect for damage. I suspect there is debris obstructing the piston action which is resulting in the valve reversal. Hopefully. the full initial backwash will have loosened and flushed out the debris so that piston & seal removal will not be necessary.

Below is information you may wish to review.

Carbon Tanks - Upflow vs Downflow comparison & Purge Kit (garden hose adaptor).

https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/32-33

Softener & Carbon system start-up procedures & Carbon Basics

https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/36-37

 

[mbg225]

Assuming your softener follows the carbon filter, I suspect carbon debris has entered the softener's control valve and has accumulated in the brine screen and injector, and possibly around the valve piston. I would suggest initially removing, inspecting and cleaning the softener's brine screen, brine valve, BLFC restrictor and injector. After reassembly, perform a full resin Backwash and then allow the controller to advance to Brine Draw to determine if the condition has been corrected. If that has not resolved the brine draw issue, you then will likely need to remove the valve piston and seals to wash-out any remaining debris and inspect for damage. I suspect there is debris obstructing the piston action which is resulting in the valve reversal. Hopefully. the full initial backwash will have loosened and flushed out the debris so that piston & seal removal will not be necessary.

So I pulled the injector inspected and no debris, cleaned the screen, no debris. Re-assembled the unit and it worked..I stepped away for an hour and came back and it did the same thing of filling the brine tank. Tried again multiple times, even pulled the valve and inspected it for debris and also nothing and it continues to fill the brine tank. I measured the drain rate and its at about 1gpm. Is that okay?

 

[Bannerman]

1 gpg seems too low. What is the total capacity of your softener (or media tank diameter)? For a 9" diameter tank, the drain rate will be 2 gpg, 10" tank- 2.4 gpm etc.

Where are you measuring the drain flow rate, at the valve or at the far end of the drain line?

Is the carbon tank before the softener? Was the carbon soaked and back-washed prior to being placed online?

 

[mbg225]

1 gpg seems too low. What is the total capacity of your softener (or media tank diameter)?

1054, 48,000grain

 

[Bannerman]

To verify, when measuring the drain flow rate, that was performed with the controller set to BackWash, not Brine Draw?

BackWash and Rapid Rinse will utilize the highest drain rate whereas the flow rate during BD will be much lower.

Drain flow should then be 2.4 gpm which is normally indicated on a label nearby to the brine line connection.

You didn't answer where you measured the drain rate. If it is only 1 gpm at the valve with the drain line disconnected, then either the DLFC button is incorrect, or there is an internal problem with the valve. First remove and inspect the DLFC button and its housing to ensure there is no debris to impare drain flow.

If the drain flow is 2.4 gpm at the valve but only 1 gpm at the far end of the drain line, then the drain line is either partially blocked, or there is a kink in the line which will need to be corrected and reconfigured to prevent recuance.

As suction for brine draw is created by water flowing through the injector which will discharge to drain, improper flow to drain will usually negatively impact the valve's ability to properly draw brine.

 

[mbg225]

To verify, when measuring the drain flow rate, that was performed with the controller set to BackWash, not Brine Draw?

I measured it from the drain valve in back wash and didn't even get gallon in 1 minute. I checked the button and no debris. Below is a picture of the label. The button has a 240 on top and of it and a ten on the right and an F at the bottom.

 

[Bannerman]

didn't even get gallon in 1 minute.

Where did you measure the drain rate (as requested in post #10)?

 

[mbg225]

Where did you measure the drain rate (as requested in post #10)?

From the valve

 

[mbg225]

No other recomendations?

 

[Bannerman]

I had already suggested removing the piston and seals to inspect for debris or defects.

As you stated the softener is a recent install and since you have not been finding any carbon within the brine and drain restrictors to cause the problem, and because the issue may have existed when the equipment was first installed, dealing with the dealer who you purchased the equipment from might be the appropriate initial course of action.

 

[Reach4]

mbg225, I presume the 5800xxx is on a softener. AFAIK, the softener never regenerated properly, right?

Do you have the right programming for a softener instead of a filter? What kind of valve type is this programmed for? Do you have the right piston to match the programming? I don't know how to tell.

What do you have, 5800LXT, 5800SXT, or 5800XTR2?

Does the dealer give you any troubleshooting help?

 

[ditttohead]

Go into master programming and make sure the valve is programmed as a 5800, not a 5810, 5812, 2815, etc. Also set the valve to DF1B. These valves all use the same electronic board but they have different piston positioning. Look at the piston rod on the back of the valve, it will have a small dot of paint. Is it yellow, blue, or white? Your drain flow is way to slow, are the numbers of the flow control button facing the valve? Put the system into brine draw and remove the drain line flow control from the system, see if you have brine draw then.

 

[mbg225]

Go into master programming and make sure the valve is programmed as a 5800, not a 5810, 5812, 2815, etc. Also set the valve to DF1B. These valves all use the same electronic board but they have different piston positioning. Look at the piston rod on the back of the valve, it will have a small dot of paint. Is it yellow, blue, or white? Your drain flow is way to slow, are the numbers of the flow control button facing the valve? Put the system into brine draw and remove the drain line flow control from the system, see if you have brine draw then.

All the programmings are correct, there is no color dot....Yes the button was facing the valve....I removed the button, put it in brine draw and it did draw brine from the tank.

 

[mbg225]

mbg225, I presume the 5800xxx is on a softener. AFAIK, the softener never regenerated properly, right?

Do you have the right programming for a softener instead of a filter? What kind of valve type is this programmed for? Do you have the right piston to match the programming? I don't know how to tell.

What do you have, 5800LXT, 5800SXT, or 5800XTR2?

Does the dealer give you any troubleshooting help?

Yest it is on a softener, I have an 5800sxt, Everything is programmed correct, it has never regenerated properly...The dealer deferred me to pentair.

 

[ditttohead]

So it works without the DLFC button installed?