Installing Fleck 5600SE

[Bannerman]

Needle nose plyers to remove the retainer.

The correct orientation for the button is with the embossed numbers to face toward the valve.

 

[BobNagrom]

More details on my continuing saga

Could not remove the BLFC retainer without fear of breaking it.

Could definitely tell a BLFC was installed but could not determine size or orientation.
Tried a different approach.

Ran another manual regen.

During the BD cycle the water in the Brine tank went down at first but still left about 11" of water in tank as measured in the Brine Well.

During the RR cycle I disconnected the tube to the Brine tank to measure the amount of water put in the brine tank.

Total of approx 3.5 gallons at 0.48 gal/min.
Just what we would expect.

But
Why is there too much water, from the first regen, in the tank?
Why did the brine water not drain down to the level of the air check on this regen?

The aforementioned "jerkiness" appears to be related to air from my pump trying to keep the pressure up during BR.

Any thoughts are welcome.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Bannerman]

Why did the brine water not drain down to the level of the air check on this regen?

Using the appropriate Brine Fill setting for your softener capacity, all of the brine will be typically transferred from the brine tank to the media tank within approx the initial 15 minutes of the usual 60 minute BD/Slow Rinse cycle setting. The remaining ~45 minutes will be utilized to push the brine through the resin tank and to rinse the resin.

You said 7.5 gallons is entering the brine tank. At 3 lbs salt per gallon, that 7.5 gallons will dissolve 22.5 lbs salt which is an unusually large amount for a softener containing 1.5 ft3 of resin. I anticipate the 60 minute BD/Slow Rinse cycle is concluding before the full amount of brine has been drawn from the brine tank. When Slow Rinse is insufficient after the brine has been drawn, the water flowing to fixtures after regeneration will be salty.

For the best balance of efficiency, capacity and water quality, the usual recommend usable Capacity setting for your softener is 36,000 grains which will require only 12 lbs salt each cycle. For 12 lbs using a 0.5 GPM BLFC, the BF setting will then need to be 8 minutes. In terms of efficiency, 36,000 grains / 12 lbs = 3,000 gr/lb.

I anticipate with 7.5 gallons currently entering the brine tank, your current Capacity setting will be 45,000 grains. For an efficiency comparison, 45,000 gr / 22.5 lbs = 2,000 gr/lb.

 

[BobNagrom]

Bannerman

Please see correction.
The system pumped 3.5 gallons into brine tank
I am using settings you recommended.

 

[Bannerman]

The system pumped 3.5 gallons into brine tank

Did you change the BF setting to reduce the inflow from 7.5 gallons to 3.5 gallons or was 7.5 misstated?

If the amount was originally 3.5 gallons, we now need to determine why that is not being drawn out during the 60 minute BD/Slow Rinse cycle.

Is the Air Check valve located at the bottom of the brine tank or is it raised above the tank bottom?

While a genuine Fleck air check valve will be typically glued directly to the brine pickup tube, we don't know if your brine pickup assembly is an actual Fleck. Are there any connections or tube fittings on the pickup tube located where brine stops being drawn where air maybe entering?

What injector is installed or specified on the label located close to the BLFC label?

 

[BobNagrom]

Thanks Bannerman

The 7.5 was a typo.
BF is set to 7 min.

This started because it looked like a lot more water in Brine tank than the 5 gals I originally put in tank for first Regeneration.
That's the water level after 1st Regen (80 lbs of salt minus 1 regen)

That led you to recommend I look at the BLFC.
I couldn't get the retainer clip out but could see a BLFC.

I had the bright idea to measure the amount of water going into the Brine tank to confirm the correct BLFC was installed.

I disconnected the Brine tube from the tank to confirm I could get it out.
Reconnected the tube, ran a manual Regen and that's when the unit failed to suck the Brine out of the tank.

I bet I introduced an air leak when I reattached the hose the first time.

The connection inside the Brine well looks to be the weak link in this system.
I don't Like those push to connect fittings.



I will make sure the connection is solid and run another Regen tonight.

Hopefully it will suck down to the Air gap like it did the first time.

Should I look at replacing the whole assembly in the Brine well?

Will the holes line up?

What do you think of the water level now that we know how much water is being pumped in?

 

[Reach4]

What do you think of the water level now that we know how much water is being pumped in?

No takers on that so far, and you seem to think somebody is going to know that info. Did you post the ID of your brine tank? Without salt, it is an easy calculation. With salt, it is not.

The amount of salt affects the level rise. You seem to have very little salt in the tank in your latest picture. What was the level before you did the latest brine fill (let's call that X)? When in the BD cycle does the level suck down to X, or when (in Minutes) in the BD cycle does the liquid level bottom out?

 

[Bannerman]

after 1st Regen (80 lbs of salt minus 1 regen)

As you had manually added 5 gallons into the brine tank initially, the 1st regeneration will have consumed 15 lbs, leaving 65 lbs. The 7-minute BF following the 1st regeneration will have dissolved a further 10.5 lbs so the remaining undesolved salt as shown will be 54.5 lbs.

The connection inside the Brine well looks to be the weak link in this system.

I agree. John Guest and other quick connect fittings are likely more reliable while the tube is under pressure vs suction.

The grey collar around the tube is shown in your photo as fully seated against the connector body. I find the connection will be more reliable and air tight by using a slot screwdriver to gently pull the collar backward so there will be a small space between the collar and connector. The tube end needs to be cut squarely and should continue to be pushed into the connector while the collar is being pulled back. Once there is space between the collar and the connector body, insert a locking clip to ensure the collar cannot be accidentally pushed in to release the tube from the connector.

IMO, locking clips should be included with every quick connect fitting regardless of whether the connector is used for pressure or suction.

Locking clip application examples: https://www.homebrewfinds.com/2020/07/finding-duotight-compatible-locking-clips.html

 

[Bannerman]

You said you are programming using my suggested settings but then said BF is programmed as 7 minutes, not 8 minutes. To regenerate 36,000 grains usable capacity, 12 lbs salt will be needed so the BF setting will therefore need to be 8 minutes.

With regard to the fluid height in the brine tank, the chart below provides an estimate of brine while the tank contains salt, indicated as Lbs of brine per inch.

https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/132-133

 

[BobNagrom]

Narrowed down problem to an air leak at John Guest connector in the Brine well.
Water level was high because it didn't suck brine consistently on any regen done to date.

During Brine Draw the water level was not going down.
Disconnected tube and stuck it down the Brine well.
Drained Brink tank.

Reconnect tube and found water leaking from this fitting during Brine Refill.

Any suggestions on where I could find one of these preferably with a compression fitting?
Or Should I replace the whole safety valve and try to reuse tube and float?

Thanks again to Bannerman and Reach4 for all your help.

 

[Bannerman]

suggestions on where I could find one of these preferably with a compression fitting?

You only just purchased the softener so I suggest you contact your supplier to obtain an in-warranty replacement for the leaking component.

 

[BobNagrom]

Unfortunately I don't even know where it came from.
Any suggestions are welcome.

 

[Bannerman]

Bob, you said in post #1

Purchased a Fleck 5600SE water softener.

The guy I purchased it from delivered it and was to return the following weekend to install.

By this, it sounds like you know who you obtained it from.

 

[BobNagrom]

And I haven't seen him since.
No idea where he got it.

Anyone know a good supplier in the states for a replacement safety valve?

 

[ditttohead]

PM sent

 

[Water Guy]

And I haven't seen him since.
No idea where he got it.

Anyone know a good supplier in the states for a replacement safety valve?

I have never seen one those leak. the brine line is just not seating fully imo. cut an inch off the brine line cleanly and flush ( like with a razor blade) then push it in firmly (hard), while supporting the opposite side with your fingers

 

[BobNagrom]

Thanks to all especially Bannerman and Reach4

Reach4 sent me some links on the fittings.
Replaced the O-ring, fresh cut on the tubing (Thanks CurtisWater), inserted the tube a full 3/4 of an inch.
Don't think it was inserted that far before for fear of breaking something,

Everything is working smoothly.

Nice to know there still is a civil discussion group on the internet and it actually helps people solve problems.
Thanks Terry Love

TaTa for Now
Bob