Installing a Salvaged 1930s Flushometer Toilet

[Arcasta]

I am hoping to replace my current toilet with this salvaged 1930s Kohler toilet. For reference, I live in a pre-war NYC co-op building. My current toilet is a rear spud flushometer, but the salvaged Kohler toilet is a top spud. The water supply line is 21 ¼” above the floor. The toilet has a height of 15”. Unfortunately, with a top spud toilet, this allows almost no space for the vacuum breaker/flush pipe, and certainly not the required 6”. I was told by one plumber that the only option would be to open the wall and raise the water supply line. However, I am not willing to do this and damage the original tile. So my question is, is there a work around? Can the supply line be raised outside of the wall? Can the vacuum breaker loop/twist to get the 6” length? My bathroom’s rough-in is 13 ½” and the salvage yard claims the salvaged Kohler has an 8” rough in. In that case, could the vacuum breaker curve down as for a rear spud, and then back up to the top spud of the salvaged toilet? I’m willing to consider any options that don’t involve damaging the tile. Thanks!

 

[Dennispug]

Why do you need this vacuum breaker thing? Does it create problems without it? Would there be a exemption for a vintage toilet?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Arcasta]

Why do you need this vacuum breaker thing? Does it create problems without it? Would there be an exemption for a vintage toilet?

The vacuum breaker prevents waste water from being siphoned back into the public water supply during flushing. While older flushometer toilets didn’t have them (or had much shorter ones) they are now required by code when any work is done on a bathroom, so no exemption for putting in an old toilet. And I’d feel pretty shitty (pun intended!) knowing I was getting waste in public drinking water.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Why do you need this vacuum breaker thing? Does it create problems without it? Would there be a exemption for a vintage toilet?

yes you must have a vaccuum breaker if toilet is connected to potable water.


Denis Pug contact sloan it can certainly be done with chrome finish nipples and fittings with out busting wall. beautifull room!

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

Having installed a million flushometers and having made a few mistakes where the height wasn't correct. They make chrome fittings and pipe nipples that you could install to point upwards to gain the correct height for the vacuum breaker to sit at the proper height above. Might have to get creative since the center of your stub out and the center of the toilet only have a certain amount of play in them before you have to get a replacement nipple for the inlet side of the flushometer (they're epoxied in and very difficult to remove)

 

[Breplum]

The whole thing is a bad idea. Do not even try. Waste of time.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Having installed a million flushometers and having made a few mistakes where the height wasn't correct. They make chrome fittings and pipe nipples that you could install to point upwards to gain the correct height for the vacuum breaker to sit at the proper height above. Might have to get creative since the center of your stub out and the center of the toilet only have a certain amount of play in them before you have to get a replacement nipple for the inlet side of the flushometer (they're epoxied in and very difficult to remove)

yep Ive seen them I was thinking those chrome fittings be available from sloan

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

The whole thing is a bad idea. Do not even try. Waste of time.

In my state of Washington, I couldn't professionally swap old fixtures for old fixtures like that since it doesn't comply with EPA water standards. I can repair an old fixture forever. Once a fixture is removed to be replaced, the new fixture must be up to date.

 

[Arcasta]

In my state of Washington, I couldn't professionally swap old fixtures for old fixtures like that since it doesn't comply with EPA water standards. I can repair an old fixture forever. Once a fixture is removed to be replaced, the new fixture must be up to date.

Thanks, I don’t believe NY has a rule like that for salvaged fixture, but I’ll look into it! However, isn’t it the flushometer (which will be new) that determines water usage? If I’m ok with a low water level in the toilet, the fixture itself it essentially just a ceramic bowl, no?

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

Thanks, I don’t believe NY has a rule like that for salvaged fixture, but I’ll look into it! However, isn’t it the flushometer (which will be new) that determines water usage? If I’m ok with a low water level in the toilet, the fixture itself it essentially just a ceramic bowl, no?

Yes and no. The bowl flushes and cleans by the amount of water going down. With a low flow flush valve, it could work.. or it may not.

I thought that NYC was one of the first adopters of low consumption fixtures. But I only pay attention to others states laws a tiny amount.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

The whole thing is a bad idea. Do not even try. Waste of time.

I 100% agree with you


You got to be out of your mind to even attempt this....
you got the toilet from a garage sale or some salvage place and you think
its just gonna install peacefully without a lot of issues...??????...

It appears that you have a concrete tile floor and I honestly doubt that the rough in for
the 2 dis-similar toilets is not the same distance out from the wall , so its not gonna install to the floor easily at all... and you are gonna have a hell of a mess on your hands

If you attempt this I suggest you get a dozen 5 gallon buckets because you are gonna be
crapping in a bucket probably until next spring...

I am a plumber and I would not even attempt this myself so may god have mercy on your soul if you find some jack leg that claims he can do this for cheap$$....

 

[Peterson]

That's a nice bathroom! The tile and wallpaper look fantastic and very period appropriate. Everything looks very well taken care of.

With the new plumbing regulations, I would be tempted to leave well enough alone and not touch this.

I'm not sure about this, but you might be able to get a black flushometer bowl that has a rear top inlet for the flushometer. That might match the tile, but at the same time look out of place.

 

[Arcasta]

I 100% agree with you


You got to be out of your mind to even attempt this....
you got the toilet from a garage sale or some salvage place and you think
its just gonna install peacefully without a lot of issues...??????...

It appears that you have a concrete tile floor and I honestly doubt that the rough in for
the 2 dis-similar toilets is not the same distance out from the wall , so its not gonna install to the floor easily at all... and you are gonna have a hell of a mess on your hands

If you attempt this I suggest you get a dozen 5 gallon buckets because you are gonna be
crapping in a bucket probably until next spring...

I am a plumber and I would not even attempt this myself so may god have mercy on your soul if you find some jack leg that claims he can do this for cheap$$....

No argument that I may be out of my mind, lol. But the rough-in will work with the toilet; there was originally a toilet identical to the salvaged one in place, but it was replaced sometime in the 70s. Unfortunately they also changed the water supply position at that time, hence my problem with back spud vs. top spud. I would never expect to find a plumber to do this for cheap. I’d expect to pay top dollar for the knowledge and problem-solving skills involved. But I’m a restorer, so this kind of thing is my passion.

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

No argument that I may be out of my mind, lol. But the rough-in will work with the toilet; there was originally a toilet identical to the salvaged one in place, but it was replaced sometime in the 70s. Unfortunately they also changed the water supply position at that time, hence my problem with back spud vs. top spud. I would never expect to find a plumber to do this for cheap. I’d expect to pay top dollar for the knowledge and problem-solving skills involved. But I’m a restorer, so this kind of thing is my passion.

NM the naysayers. As long as you are installing it legally and safely then go for it. Most people don't like to think outside the box for solutions. I've done nearly the exact same thing working in older buildings downtown. Its not easy, but it is possible.

Top view Elevation view

Not to scale.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Its actually pretty basic as Tuttles shows not really outside the box, its just outside the code, putting in a legal toilet might involve the same procedure as outlined the same fittings and parts nipples 90s and flushometor stuff like that .

 

[Robert Gift]

I am hoping to replace my current toilet with this salvaged 1930s Kohler toilet. For reference, I live in a pre-war NYC co-op building.
View attachment 94362

Would love it! "Go" for it.
But I would measureverything to see if compatible with what exists.
Presumably will need to bring the water supply up above the toileto whathexisting Code requires.
Hopefully such can be done exteriorly without having to damage the tile wall. (But would be nicer if extended inside the wall.)
Looks like the old toilet better matches the sink color!
Please post video of how it flushes.
As a young boy I remember grandparants big old toilet flushing in a strange, inefficient way. But cannot remember details.

 

[BECplumbing]

Why do you need this vacuum breaker thing? Does it create problems without it? Would there be an exemption for a vintage toilet?

The vacuum breaker is there to make sure that in the event of a vacuum occurring in the pipe that it doesn’t suck dirty water from the toilet into the water supply lines.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

Please post before and after pictures of your project if this ever actually gets done.....


good luck