Goulds 10GS15 Submersible Pump Amperage Concern

[Valveman]

They have the Ups a Dazy puller, and the last time it was about an hour to get pump out, an hour to replace and inspect the lines, test run, then lower into the well and runs some tests - three hours total. No CDL, no hoist truck. Yes I understand product sales drive revenue and services are a cost center - you need enough staff to install and support - they also have other products - filtration, softener, irrigation.

It is great they they were able to use the Ups a Dazy. But that only works for a few well applications. If anything gets stuck, needs cleaning, has other kinds of pipe, or lots of other things will cause the Ups a Dazy people to go get the real equipment or call someone who has real equipment. I know $500 / $800 or even $2000 sounds like a lot to get a pump fixed, but with the price of equipment, fuel, labor, insurance, etc, etc., $2000 doesn't go very far. And those expenses come every month whether you have jobs or not. So they normally do lots of jobs in the summer when everyone is using water and wearing out their pumps, then they have to live on what is left the rest of the year. Then hope next year is good as well, because it is hard to save up enough to last more than a year at a time. As long as the homeowner gets what he pays for, it doesn't matter how much it cost. But if you don't get what you pay for, even a $10 service job is too expensive. The problem is knowing if you really got your moneys worth, and the Internet is a great help with that.

 

[Carl_NH]

Thank you for the pump lesson! Learning more and more every day. I am also considering my best options given what I have learned here so here goes.

Given that we have an 8 GPM +- 400' deep well, pump at 375' and static water level average around 80-150' I think a 7GPM pump capable at least 5 GPM at 350' would work better/longer due to less cycling. The current Goulds 10GS15 runs at most 2 minutes before cycling off (yes I know CSV solves this problem). So a 7 GPM pump would likely cycle less - probably 40% less given the way we consume water. We don't need the 13-15 GPM we get now, just a steady 7-10 GPM which would equate to longer run times.

Option 1: Install my new Goulds 10GS15 and install a CSV - Downsides?
Option 2 - Buy a Grundfos 7S15-26 SP Series SST Pump End for $700 and use my existing 1.5 HP Franklin Motor - and a CSV potentially too.
Option: 3 - Go with the local pump guy that sells/installs Berkeley and put in a 7MGS15 - not the slimline - pump is roughly $1K then installation etc.

It seems to me the best solution might be option 1, but option 2 I like as well, less on option 3 per stated reasons above.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Carl_NH]

It is great they they were able to use the Ups a Dazy. But that only works for a few well applications. If anything gets stuck, needs cleaning, has other kinds of pipe, or lots of other things will cause the Ups a Dazy people to go get the real equipment or call someone who has real equipment. I know $500 / $800 or even $2000 sounds like a lot to get a pump fixed, but with the price of equipment, fuel, labor, insurance, etc, etc., $2000 doesn't go very far. And those expenses come every month whether you have jobs or not. So they normally do lots of jobs in the summer when everyone is using water and wearing out their pumps, then they have to live on what is left the rest of the year. Then hope next year is good as well, because it is hard to save up enough to last more than a year at a time. As long as the homeowner gets what he pays for, it doesn't matter how much it cost. But if you don't get what you pay for, even a $10 service job is too expensive. The problem is knowing if you really got your moneys worth, and the Internet is a great help with that.

Thanks to you all here - I know what I want, it's a matter of the current pump supplier changed brands - Goulds, to Jaccuzzi to now Berkeley / Sta Rite over the course of about 15 years. I fully understand the laws of supply and demand, and costs of insurance, and having staff that are capable / knowledgeable year over year takes $ to keep them around and employed all year long. I have had my own business with employees and understand you need to make hay today, and save for the rainy day tomorrow.

And disagree on the money's worth statement, the internet is good for research but that's not reality. I am looking for the best product at the best value installed for the long haul - not the lowest cost of services/service.

 

[Valveman]

And disagree on the money's worth statement, the internet is good for research but that's not reality. I am looking for the best product at the best value installed for the long haul - not the lowest cost of services/service.

Lowest cost is rarely getting your money's worth. Best value for long haul is what I meant as well.

At that depth and pressure the 7 GPM pump will give you 7 GPM , and the 10 GPM pump will give you 8 GPM, so they will cycle on/off almost the same. However, the 7 GPM has too much back pressure for a CSV, but the 10 GPM will work fine with the CSV, which like you say will solve the cycling problem.

You already have the Goulds 10GS15? If so that is what I would use.

 

[Carl_NH]

Lowest cost is rarely getting your money's worth. Best value for long haul is what I meant as well.

At that depth and pressure the 7 GPM pump will give you 7 GPM , and the 10 GPM pump will give you 8 GPM, so they will cycle on/off almost the same. However, the 7 GPM has too much back pressure for a CSV, but the 10 GPM will work fine with the CSV, which like you say will solve the cycling problem.

You already have the Goulds 10GS15? If so that is what I would use.

Thanks for this advice and I am likely installing the existing 10GS15 and buying the Welltech pump pulley picture attached. Also I reviewed the pump charts for 1.5HP 10 GPM vs 7 GPM and at the 120' static level the 10GPM provides 14 GPM @ 40PSI and 13GPM @ 60 PSI. At the 300' static level which I don't think we touch very often, the flow drops to 10.5 and 9.5 GPM. For the 7GPM at the same 120' 40PSI 10.1 GPM and 9.7 GPM at 60PSI. Go to 300' and the 7GPM pump is 8.2 GPM @40 PSI and 7.7 @ 60PSI.

One other thought is a 1" Dole 10 GPM restrictor valve - which would provide us the max flow we need and also cause the pump to run a bit longer when the water level is higher. Thoughts on this approach vs CSV?

I reviewed the CSV too and the 5 GPM would seem to be the right choice and the benefit of the CSV as I understand vs the Dole valve is it will run wide open 14 GPM up to 50 PSI and provide as much flow as needed, then once the flow has stopped it will fill the tanks @ 5GPM, as I mentioned initially I have two WellxTrol with 20 gal total drawdown.

 

[Valveman]

No you don't want a CSV with a 5 GPM bypass. Those are used for 3 and 5HP because they need more cooling flow than 2HP and smaller, which only need 1 GPM to stay cool. The 5 GPM bypass will cause the pump to cycle anytime you are using less than 5 GPM, like for a 3 GPM shower, which is annoying. You won't need those big pressure tanks after installing a CSV. They will actually keep you from seeing the good strong constant pressure from the CSV until you have used all 40 gallons from the tanks and the pump has started. With 40 gallons of drawdown you will never see constant pressure in the shower, as the pressure will be falling from 60 to 40 PSI for 13 minutes. After people experience the strong constant pressure from CSV they don't like waiting to see it, and will usually install a smaller tank.

But the CSV with the 1 GPM bypass will still work with those big tanks and 40 gallons of drawdown. You just need to set the CSV at 58 PSI of using a 40/60 pressure switch so it doesn't take more than 2-3 minutes to refill those tanks after the shower is turned off.

A CSV and Dole valve can be used together. The Dole limits the max flow, and the CSV controls from the max flow down to 1 GPM. But you will lose pressure through the Dole valve. The Dole is not needed unless you run more water than the well can produce for long periods of time. Even then it is probably best to just protect the well pump from running dry with a Cycle Sensor than trying to use a Dole valve to keep the well from being pumped dry.