Check valve at the well's pit,?

[Valveman]

I shouldn't have said Amsoil. I use regular oil. And even regular oil will protect an engine far longer than the manufacturers guidelines.

It is not a conspiracy theory, it is a conspiracy fact. Pump manufacturers are not your friend. Yes they are lying and sticking it to you in ways you can't even imagine. Yes they promote using motors in all kinds of conditions including hot water. They are just not going to let you know that what they do to make it pump hot water will allow the same motor to work safely with a very small amount of cool water. That would mean a CSV cools motors much easier than their hugely profitable VFD's, and they are not going to say anything to promote a product that is disruptive to their profits. I have asked them many times if the motor is de-rated enough it can pump any flow rate of 140F, how much 60F water does it need to stay cool? See if you can get an honest answer to that question. Hitachi is the only motor company forthcoming and honest enough to answer that question for me.

I can tell you the answer to that question only because I tested Franklin motors myself, hundreds of times. The minimum flow through a CSV is designed to be at least twice as much as needed to cool a de-rated motor in cool water. Your argument is getting old. I showed you proof with two letters from a prominent motor manufacturer to prove my point, and you have shown nothing but the old rule of thumb guidelines that have nothing to do with a de-rated motor. Get a letter from Franklin stating that a CSV will not allow enough flow and they will disallow a warranty, or you have no proof of what you say. That would be really funny if they would write you a letter, as they sell things like that In-line 400 which works at much lower flow rates than a CSV.

 

[shane21]

Okay this quickly devolving into near lunacy. Are you really asking me to get a letter in writing from a manufacturer that states someone using a CSV will void a warranty? All a manufacturer is likely to do in that case, if they didn't just disregard such a nonsensical request, is run the math on the flow rate and say that if it doesn't meet the minimum cooling specs then you are operating the motor in an unintended environment and they reserve the right to deny warranty coverage.

You are missing the whole point of the argument, it is less about warranty and more about the long term impact on the motor from prolonged exposure to higher temperatures, even if those temperatures are not high enough to cause catastrophic failure within the warranty period.

You clearly don't understand this issue at all if you are claiming the motor manufacturer is somehow allowing for less than the minimum cooling water flow when used with "their hugely profitable VFD's" when it says in plain black and white what those specs are and makes no exemption for their proprietary VFD use. In the case of Franklin Electric they specifically state their 4-inch super stainless motors need no specific minimum flow rate to maintain proper cooling as long as some water movement is present, so by your logic they are promoting CVS use in their motors below 3 HP but conspiring against it for motors at 3 HP and up? Is it more likely that the heat dissipation properties of their smaller motors are significantly more effective at low flows than their larger motors or that "they are lying and sticking it to you in ways you can't even imagine" but only on their line of 3 HP and larger motors? Again man you are progressing from conspiratorial and approaching the realm of lunacy.

The letters you linked to Hitachi are great for Hitachi motors, but that letter doesn't then apply to all submersible motors even if you say it does, and implying such is only steering homeowners into an unnecessarily risky environment. The only take away from those letters is that people should use Hitachi motors if they are concerned, nothing more.

This argument will never get old and will always be valid unless somehow it can be proven that motor manufacturers are flat out lying about the cooling needs of their product.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Valveman]

They can't deny a warranty for something that might happen, only if it does happen. Yeah they say the "Super Stainless" motor will survive with no specific flow rate or even a shroud. But that is because they shortened them up so much that the intake is much closer to the end of the motor like on a 3HP. But you have to remember, it is a conspiracy, they sell motors. Recommending no flow or no shroud just helps them sell more motors. All they care is that most of their motors make it past the warranty date. But an engineer told me one time they had rather warranty half of all the motors they make, than make a motor so good they never get a warranty claim. Repeat business would be nonexistent that way.

Of course they make no exceptions to the minimum flow for VFD controlled pumps, they can't. That is exactly why they don't want to admit that a de-rated full speed motor will be fine with reduced flow.

You are missing the point. There is no higher temperature at the minimum flow designed into the CSV. They are not lying about the cooling requirements of their motor if you know how to interpret what they say about de-rated motors . But if you don't, they will let you keep playing the fool.

My take away from this is you know you can't get Franklin to say anything negative about the CSV. Franklin doesn't have to say anything because they have you playing the fool for them. They let little rumors play out and get guys like you will make stuff up to scare people away from something that would cut into their motor business.