3" Waste Stack Crooked

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GLG

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I'm getting ready to frame basement. The 3" waste stack is crooked. It is 4.5" from wall (farthest point from wall) near concrete floor (see pic#1). Up near the top it leans away from wall and is 5.5" from wall (see pic #2).
Is there any way to straighten this without breaking up concrete? I'm trying to keep wall studs as close to the wall as possible. Pic #3 shows piping routing near ceiling.

In addition, the 2" sanitary tee piping will be reworked to swap 2" washer drain and 1.5" sink drain lines, so the 1.5" sink drain is above 2" washer drain pipe. (Pic#4).

Thank you.

Gary

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wwhitney

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Pic #3 shows a san-tee on its back presumably receiving drainage from above (as there'd be no reason to have a vent there), so that should be replaced with a combo.

Pic #4 shows a a vent 90 being used for drainage; that should be replaced with a LT90, but you indicate you're redoing that piping anyway.

Are you going to be trying to reuse the 2" san-tee just above the slab? If so, you'll need to get a fitting saver type bit to bore the pipe out of the side entry. If a LT90 plus two stacked san-tees (possibly street) puts the standpipe trap arm or sink trap arm too high, there are other configurations possible on that side.

As to the original question, you could get that stack closer to the wall just by rotating the lower joint of the upper 45 (and possibly the lower joint of the lower 45 as well) so that the upper PVC run plumb (and possibly the diagonal segment runs closer to the wall).

Of course you can't rotate a glued joint after the fact. But as the san-tee on its back needs replacing, just cut out upstream of it all the way to the vertical segment between the 2" san-tee and the cleanout, and rebuild that section. And when rebuilding, get the joints rotated properly and the lengths correct so the stack hugs the wall more. In particular the upper most horizontal segment alongside the steel I beam needs to be longer.

Or if you want to replace that 2" san-tee and have enough clean pipe between the top of the slab and the bottom of the san-tee for hub, you could cut at the bottom of the san-tee instead of above it.

Cheers, Wayne
 

wwhitney

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In particular the upper most horizontal segment alongside the steel I beam needs to be longer.
Actually, there's some possibility that if you just cut out that san-tee on its back, that will free up the stack enough that you can get it somewhat closer to the wall with just a little force (not too much). In which case if that is good enough, you'd have less rework to do.

Either way, when rebuilding you're likely going to need to use at least one shielded rubber coupling for PVC pipe to make up the last connection, most likely just upstream of the combo that replaces the san-tee on its back. Using 1-3 more may make the reconnection easier.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Jeff H Young

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As we can see its not a perfect world! As far as the stack leaning it is what it is do whatever you want and try to keep the new work as tight as you can you can cheat a little by scratching out a little dry wall and hot mudding it . Since Ive been in this trade they want us to fit 3 inch pipe inside a 3.5 inch wall of cource 3 inch pipe is actually 3.5 inches od and that would fit in a 3.5 inch wall if we didnt have fittings that are about 4 inches on the od of the hub , so your going to have to bow the wall pull the wall framing where your pipe will be covered or notch the back of drywall
 

GLG

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Pic #3 shows a san-tee on its back presumably receiving drainage from above (as there'd be no reason to have a vent there), so that should be replaced with a combo.

Pic #4 shows a a vent 90 being used for drainage; that should be replaced with a LT90, but you indicate you're redoing that piping anyway.

Are you going to be trying to reuse the 2" san-tee just above the slab? If so, you'll need to get a fitting saver type bit to bore the pipe out of the side entry. If a LT90 plus two stacked san-tees (possibly street) puts the standpipe trap arm or sink trap arm too high, there are other configurations possible on that side.

As to the original question, you could get that stack closer to the wall just by rotating the lower joint of the upper 45 (and possibly the lower joint of the lower 45 as well) so that the upper PVC run plumb (and possibly the diagonal segment runs closer to the wall).

Of course you can't rotate a glued joint after the fact. But as the san-tee on its back needs replacing, just cut out upstream of it all the way to the vertical segment between the 2" san-tee and the cleanout, and rebuild that section. And when rebuilding, get the joints rotated properly and the lengths correct so the stack hugs the wall more. In particular the upper most horizontal segment alongside the steel I beam needs to be longer.

Or if you want to replace that 2" san-tee and have enough clean pipe between the top of the slab and the bottom of the san-tee for hub, you could cut at the bottom of the san-tee instead of above it.

Cheers, Wayne

Pic #3 shows a san-tee on its back presumably receiving drainage from above (as there'd be no reason to have a vent there), so that should be replaced with a combo.

Pic #4 shows a a vent 90 being used for drainage; that should be replaced with a LT90, but you indicate you're redoing that piping anyway.

Are you going to be trying to reuse the 2" san-tee just above the slab? If so, you'll need to get a fitting saver type bit to bore the pipe out of the side entry. If a LT90 plus two stacked san-tees (possibly street) puts the standpipe trap arm or sink trap arm too high, there are other configurations possible on that side.

As to the original question, you could get that stack closer to the wall just by rotating the lower joint of the upper 45 (and possibly the lower joint of the lower 45 as well) so that the upper PVC run plumb (and possibly the diagonal segment runs closer to the wall).

Of course you can't rotate a glued joint after the fact. But as the san-tee on its back needs replacing, just cut out upstream of it all the way to the vertical segment between the 2" san-tee and the cleanout, and rebuild that section. And when rebuilding, get the joints rotated properly and the lengths correct so the stack hugs the wall more. In particular the upper most horizontal segment alongside the steel I beam needs to be longer.

Or if you want to replace that 2" san-tee and have enough clean pipe between the top of the slab and the bottom of the san-tee for hub, you could cut at the bottom of the san-tee instead of above it.

Cheers, Wayne
Wayne,

Pic #3 - You're correct, the 3" san-tee on its back is a drain from the 2nd floor master bath. I have attached another pic (pic #5) showing the rest of the pipe. The 2" tee is a drain from the 1st floor half bath. The left section of the 3" pipe is from half bath toilet. Is it even possible to replace the 3" san-tee on its back with a combo with the configuration?

Pic #4 - I did that piping arrangement for washing machine and laundry sink 30 years ago. Correct, I am redoing that.

In regard to the 2" san-tee above slab, the plan is to re-use it. How do I connect laundry sink and washing machine standpipe to left side of 3" waste stack? The 2" line is a dry vent.

If I replace 2" san-tee above slab, do I have enough 3" pipe above slab to connect new 2" san-tee? The dimension from the hub coming out of the concrete to exiting san-tee is 2".

Thank you!
 

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Jeff H Young

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The 3x3x2 san tee has room to glue fitting on. BTW the 2 inch 90 dosent even look like a vent 90 more like a pvc water fitting not that it matters
Pipe pic 5 shows the 2 santees on back the one closest to toilet might be but also in the picture there is a 3 inch 90 on a 45 should be long sweep. work dosent look too bad but a few concerns
 

Fitter30

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Cut the 3" just the clean out heat the 3" with a hair drier middle of the pipe straighten pipe up. Just watch your heat that pipe does doesn't get to soft. Have a wet rag to cool joint.
 

wwhitney

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Pic #5 makes it hard to tell how far the 3" horizontal line is away from the I-beam. So some of my suggestions might involve fittings that would interfere with the top of that beam.

There's a wood packer on top of the steel, and that part at least would be OK to notch as required between joists. But if the fitting would hit the steel, the solution may be to move the 3" horizontal line a little farther away from the I-beam. Which would typically be a lot of work, but if you want to eliminate the san-tees on their back, you'd be replacing it all anyway, so it wouldn't be a problem.

Pic #3 - You're correct, the 3" san-tee on its back is a drain from the 2nd floor master bath. I have attached another pic (pic #5) showing the rest of the pipe. The 2" tee is a drain from the 1st floor half bath. The left section of the 3" pipe is from half bath toilet. Is it even possible to replace the 3" san-tee on its back with a combo with the configuration?

That additional 3x3x2 (1-1/2?) san-tee on its back should also be changed to a combo. Looks like there's a 90 just above it from a horizontal drain in the joist bay? You'd need to double check, but I think you'd have enough height for a combo rolled 45 degrees from plumb, plus a 45.

As to how to change the 3" san-tee on its back, looks like if you use a 45 just below the subfloor, then the diagonal drain line would clear the I-beam (to be confirmed). Then it could either hit the side inlet of a combo rolled 45 degrees from plumb, or depending on the distances, hit a 45 (or 60) to go horizontal parallel to (or at a 45 to) the beam, and then the side inlet of a horizontal combo (or a wye).

Actually executing that would be difficult, as you've got three fittings in a row. So if you want to do all the work from the basement, you'd need to figure out how to remove the upper 90 without damaging the pipe that comes through the subfloor. After cutting the fitting just below the hub, I believe there is a fancy cutter that is a "pipe saver" to cut a hub off an existing pipe; I've never used it. Or it might be possible to cut the hub longitudinally in several places (avoiding going into the pipe), and then use heat and/or leverage to break the glue joint.

All of that is a lot of work, so you could just take the attitude that even though the DWV is wrong in those places, you'll deal with it once/if it finally clogs or stops working well. In which case for the original question of straightening the stack, you'd just need to cut the 3" horizontal line between the 3" san-tee on its back and the elbow where it turns down, to add a little length to get that elbow closer to the wall.

In regard to the 2" san-tee above slab, the plan is to re-use it. How do I connect laundry sink and washing machine standpipe to left side of 3" waste stack? The 2" line is a dry vent.

If I replace 2" san-tee above slab, do I have enough 3" pipe above slab to connect new 2" san-tee? The dimension from the hub coming out of the concrete to exiting san-tee is 2".
2" of exposed pipe would be marginal, the hub depth on a 3" solvent weld fitting is 1.5". Doable if you can get the full 2" clean. You'd glue on a coupling or a new san-tee or wye, depending on how the elevations work out for your sink/standpipe trap arms. Or you could use a banded rubber coupling, that has only a 1" hub depth. Sounds like this is plan B.

Then if plan A is to reuse the 2" san-tee, the simplest arrangement would be, going upstream from the 2" side inlet: LT 90; (possibly street) 2" san-tee for the washer standpipe; (possibly street) 2x1-1/2x1-1/2" san-tee for the laundry sink and vent. If that gives you the elevations you want for the standpipe and laundry sink trap arms, go with that. If not, there are other options.

Cheers, Wayne
 

GLG

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Pic #5 makes it hard to tell how far the 3" horizontal line is away from the I-beam. So some of my suggestions might involve fittings that would interfere with the top of that beam.

There's a wood packer on top of the steel, and that part at least would be OK to notch as required between joists. But if the fitting would hit the steel, the solution may be to move the 3" horizontal line a little farther away from the I-beam. Which would typically be a lot of work, but if you want to eliminate the san-tees on their back, you'd be replacing it all anyway, so it wouldn't be a problem.



That additional 3x3x2 (1-1/2?) san-tee on its back should also be changed to a combo. Looks like there's a 90 just above it from a horizontal drain in the joist bay? You'd need to double check, but I think you'd have enough height for a combo rolled 45 degrees from plumb, plus a 45.

As to how to change the 3" san-tee on its back, looks like if you use a 45 just below the subfloor, then the diagonal drain line would clear the I-beam (to be confirmed). Then it could either hit the side inlet of a combo rolled 45 degrees from plumb, or depending on the distances, hit a 45 (or 60) to go horizontal parallel to (or at a 45 to) the beam, and then the side inlet of a horizontal combo (or a wye).

Actually executing that would be difficult, as you've got three fittings in a row. So if you want to do all the work from the basement, you'd need to figure out how to remove the upper 90 without damaging the pipe that comes through the subfloor. After cutting the fitting just below the hub, I believe there is a fancy cutter that is a "pipe saver" to cut a hub off an existing pipe; I've never used it. Or it might be possible to cut the hub longitudinally in several places (avoiding going into the pipe), and then use heat and/or leverage to break the glue joint.

All of that is a lot of work, so you could just take the attitude that even though the DWV is wrong in those places, you'll deal with it once/if it finally clogs or stops working well. In which case for the original question of straightening the stack, you'd just need to cut the 3" horizontal line between the 3" san-tee on its back and the elbow where it turns down, to add a little length to get that elbow closer to the wall.


2" of exposed pipe would be marginal, the hub depth on a 3" solvent weld fitting is 1.5". Doable if you can get the full 2" clean. You'd glue on a coupling or a new san-tee or wye, depending on how the elevations work out for your sink/standpipe trap arms. Or you could use a banded rubber coupling, that has only a 1" hub depth. Sounds like this is plan B.

Then if plan A is to reuse the 2" san-tee, the simplest arrangement would be, going upstream from the 2" side inlet: LT 90; (possibly street) 2" san-tee for the washer standpipe; (possibly street) 2x1-1/2x1-1/2" san-tee for the laundry sink and vent. If that gives you the elevations you want for the standpipe and laundry sink trap arms, go with that. If not, there are other options.

Cheers, Wayne
Thank you for your help. I have one other question in regard to san-tees on their back. This installation was done back in 2001 when the house was built. If an inspector came out now to inspect plumbing changes would that not pass even though it was signed off in 2001. Is there a grandfather clause? Thanks again! Gary
 

wwhitney

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If it had been to code in 2001, sure, but I believe it was never allowed for drainage. Older-timers may be able to confirm.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Tuttles Revenge

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Thank you for your help. I have one other question in regard to san-tees on their back. This installation was done back in 2001 when the house was built. If an inspector came out now to inspect plumbing changes would that not pass even though it was signed off in 2001. Is there a grandfather clause? Thanks again! Gary
There is a grandfather clause in the UPC code. That if something were installed to code at the time of installation, it is grandfathered in and may be repaired like for like.. unless it creates a dangerous situation.

Not a snowballs chance in hell that in 2001, a san tee on its back was an approved installation.

However, in our area, a san tee on its back could be used as a vent if you're remodeling and there is insufficient room to get a proper drainage fitting. But it isn't in the code.. just an unwritten rule.
 

GLG

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There is a grandfather clause in the UPC code. That if something were installed to code at the time of installation, it is grandfathered in and may be repaired like for like.. unless it creates a dangerous situation.

Not a snowballs chance in hell that in 2001, a san tee on its back was an approved installation.

However, in our area, a san tee on its back could be used as a vent if you're remodeling and there is insufficient room to get a proper drainage fitting. But it isn't in the code.. just an unwritten rule.
 
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