2 inch well problems

[phughes200]

I am having issues with my well. It is a two inch well that is approximately 35 feet deep and has a jet pump. The well was drilled in 1965. The well head is buried. I have been told by the previous owner that the foot valve and well pipe were replaced sometime around 2007. I suspect that the foot valve is as low as it can go. I have had two main issues:

1) For the last several months, I have been getting air in the system. Just very short burst when I turn on the faucets or shower. After a heavy rain last week, the problem is significantly less. I have never run out of water or had the pressure drop to an unusable pressure. Our household of three people average a total of 1 shower, 1 wash load, 1 dishwasher load a day plus the usual toilet flushing. No outside water usage.

2) After a heavy rain the water will be cloudly (more redish) for a day or two. I am in NC with that nice reddish soil.

So far, I have tried the following:

1) I ran the shower until the pump kicks on at 38 psi. The pump will restore the pressue to the cutoff pressure of 58 at the rate of 1 psi per minute (20 minutes total). The shower draws 2 gpm. If I try the test with the other shower ( 1 GPM) the pressure increases at 2 psi per minute.

2) I had a pump tech out and he stated that the pump and bladder are okay. He recommended opening the well and surging the well to try to improve the yield. It seem this might help if the water level is dropping low enough to air in but doesn't address the sediment issue.

3) I have discussed this with two well drillers on the phone. They both stated that surging the well could 1) cause more problems and 2) be a waste of money. They think the sediment could be from a hole in the casing or a failing seal where the casing meets the bedrock. Either way, they claim that surface water could be entering the well and recommended a new well. They both feel that the system mechanicals (bladder, pump, jet, foot valve and pipes) were working properly. They felt that opening the well would have little to no benifit.

Any thoughts. In my area, most new wells are 6 inch drilled to 200-300 feet. Needless to say, this is not cheap. The property will also make running the pipe difficult and expensive. I would just like a feeling if what I am being told makes sense. The well drillers sound sincere in their analysis or they are very good salesmen. My gut says the former.

Thanks for any help.

Sorry just read the sticky about suppling information. This is what I know:

Type of pump?
Submersible________
Two wire (no control)________
Three wire (control box)______
Wire Size_________ Wire Length________
or
Jet Pump (above ground)____X_____
One or two pipes down the well__2 leavin the pump. Unknow what is in the well_

Size of Pump?
Motor Horsepower?____1 HP______
Pump Model #______________
Date Pump Installed__________

Pumping from?
Cistern tank___________
Pond, lake, river________
Water Well_____X_______
Depth of well___25-40 ft est._______
Depth to water____unknown_____
Pump Setting__________
Pipe Size_____2" casing____"
Drop Pipe Material
PVC________
Steel____S.S___
Poly________

Well Recovery Rate_______gpm
Well Casing Diameter____2___”
Rock Well__________ Sand Well__________ Other______________
Date Well Drilled_______1965_____

Well Casing Material
PVC________ Steel____X (guess)_____ Other_________


Pressure Tank?
Bladder or diaphragm tank (one pipe to tank)_____x_____
Size or model of tank_____52 gallon (12 gallon draw down)_______
Air charge in top of tank, with pump off and water drained____31 psi________PSI
(check with car tire gauge)
or
Plain Hydro Pneumatic tank (two pipes to tank, one in and one out)_________
Size of tank________________

Pressure Switch Setting?
On 30, off 50 ________
On 40, off 60_____x 38on, 58 off____
Other_______________

Pump Control Method?
Cycle Stop Valve model #_________
Variable speed control #__________
Pump Start Relay (sprinkler timer, no tank)__________
Manually turned on and off____________

Pump Protection
Cycle Sensor_________
Pumptec_____________
Low pressure cutoff switch (lever on side)__________
Other_______________

Filters or Softeners______________
Before or after pressure tank_______
Type of filter___________________
Bypass available________________

Water Used For?
House Use___x____ Number of baths___3____ Number of People____3____
High Flow Showers____2___gpm?
Plus/Or
Irrigation with timers________
Irrigation with hoses________
Heat Pump______gpm?


Problems Experienced
No Water_________________
Water only part time________
Water at all times but weak_____
Air in water______x_________
Pressure surging___________
Water Hammer (noise)______
Too Much pressure_________
Other__sediment after rain__________________


Pump makes clicking or buzzing sounds________
No Sounds_______x_______
Pressure gauge reading____58____psi
Other____________________________________

Do you have, and know how to use
an Ampmeter and Voltmeter_____yes_____________

Describe Problem______see above____________________.....

 

[LLigetfa]

What makes you think it is a rock well? It sounds like a mud well to me. Over-pumping the well might reduce the turbidity.

Measuring the PSI per minute is meaningless. What you need to do is measure the GPM. Before you can over-pump the well to wash out the silt, you probably need to increase the recovery rate since you will simply draw down the water in the casing and suck air. That said, a 35 foot deep 2 inch well is nothing to write home about. Probably not worth the effort to remediate.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[phughes200]

I have no idea if it is a rock well or mud well or how to tell the difference. The head if the well is buried. I dug down about a foot and didn't find it. My description was based on talking with a local driller. I do know my nieghbor has a 51 foot casing in his deep (225ft, 6 inch well) so I wonder what I have.

As for the psi rating, what I was trying to say was that with the shower running and using 2 gpm (at 55 psi initially), the pump can steady increase the pressure to the cutoff point but takes 20 minutes. I assume that means that my current yield is greater than 2 gpm. With no water running, the pump takes 5 minutes to raise the pressure fron 38 psi to 58 psi in a 52 gallon bladder tank.

I know the well is not great. I am trying to determine is does the sediment after a rain mean surface water is entering the well. If so, I assume that is an issue that needs addressing. I have been told the fix is a new well. Is it possible that the seal at the top of the well (that is below ground) failed?

Opening the well is a $1000+ job. A new well will likely be $6000+. Is it worth it to open the current well?

 

[LLigetfa]

Opening the well is a $1000+ job. A new well will likely be $6000+. Is it worth it to open the current well?

At $1000, it is throwing money at a well that is not worth that much.

 

[Texas Wellman]

Your well is 50+ years old. Galvanized casing eventually get holes in them. Some sooner, some later. No matter what you do to this well your casing will eventually rust through. It might already be there.

Unless you're willing to take a chance that the well could go bad the day after the well guys leave I would not waste any more money on your old well and start planning for a new one.

 

[Valveman]

Just the well head being below grade could cause the cloudy water after a rain. Just think what else that rain is washing out of your yard and down the well. But that doesn't have anything to do with low production. Your water maybe deeper than you can pump with a single pipe jet pump. And if it has a packer, the 50 year old casing maybe the problem. I know a new well will be expensive. But you would pay several times that much for a new car, and their are few things in this world as important as a good supply of clean water.

 

[phughes200]

Thanks for the feedback. Being unemployed, I was hoping for a better answer but it is what it is.

 

[phughes200]

Finally got the town to do the site inspection.

Had a driller come out to give a quote. After looking at the site and explaining the facts of life to me, he asked why am I doing this. I explained the story. He felt that any two inch well that can restore pressure with a shower running would be worth saving. He stated that there is no way for air to enter the system. He feels that the only way would be a leak in the suction side that is sucking in air and sediment. After the heavy ran yesterday, I once again have reddish water. He seem to feel that a hole in the casing is unlikely based on his experience. He said casing from the 1960s was well made steel that rarely rusts through. He recommends opening the well and replacing all the components between the well and the pump. The distance fom the well to the pump is less than 6 feet.

Does this make sense? He estimates $2000-$2500 for the job. A new well will run $6000-7000. My fear as others have stated is that there is no gaurantee that the repair will work. He feels confident and seems competent but it's not his money. For the record, he is perfectly happy to drill a new well.

 

[Valveman]

2500 is a lot of money for 20' of pipe and a foot valve. But that is what I would do first myself.

 

[phughes200]

2500 is a lot of money for 20' of pipe and a foot valve. But that is what I would do first myself.

That was my thought. Since the foot valve, well pipe and jet was replaced sometime in the past 6 years, I would think that it could be easly pulled. He would have to dig down to the well head and the 5 feet of pipe to the house. Seems relatively striaght forward.