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koehler
12-30-2004, 11:42 PM
Hi All,

I found the forum doing some research on my cranky Kohler 3402PB. Couple of questions if you don't mind.

I can't seem to find much reference to the 3402PB model, only the 3402. Is it normally just referred to as the 3402, or do I have some other variant?

I am rather shocked to find that Kohler is almost entirely unavailable as an aftermarket parts pruchase. It would appear that the rubber plunger inside the fill valve has deteriorated, and is causing a faint but perceptible continuous fill noise. Is it possible to find this plunger by itself, or am I really stuck paying $80-90 for a whole new assembly.

If not, I'm seriously considering taking a shot at replacing the entire toilet with a new one. Appears to be rather straightforward as a one piece unit. For someone only moderately mechanically inclined, any tips.

Thanks, great site too!

Terry
12-31-2004, 12:01 AM
Thanks,


I don't know if this helps, S. McMillan wrote me the other day:

"Our Kohler Rialto (~12 yrs old K3402) started running about 2 years ago but could be stopped (until about 5 months ago) by tightening the top center screw of the ballcock to push down the plunger to stop the water flow. I saw online that Kohler no longer made the ballcock (refill valve) and I would have to buy a new toilet. A local plumbing supply house had them but they cost ~$98!!! Further online research has finally shown that this Kohler ballcock valve is Model 1B1-X made by Coast Foundries for Kohler. The top cap on ours says "Kohler Co. 1B1-X Sheath Ballcock". I found new 1B1-X ballcocks (~$24)and rebuild kits ($3.69) online at Ace hardware and DoItBest hardware stores. The new 1B1-X ballcocks don't have the lower flush float valve that feeds the rim flush so I purchased the rebuild kit at a local DoItBest hardware store (part number 450758 O/M 1-25) and repaired our old one in about 10 minutes. (Wouldn't it be nice if Kohler told us that a couple of years ago instead of telling us we needed to buy a new toilet)." S. McMillan

More information on the K-3402 (http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18924)

koehler
12-31-2004, 02:05 AM
Terry,

Thanks very much. I did already replace the cap, found as above at Ace. I will try reinstalling and cranking down on the top screw. If that doesn't work, I'll try to find the kits and do a rebuild.

Thanks again.

jimbo
12-31-2004, 04:13 AM
Rialto's are a pain; but I just put in a complete new Coast 1B1X and find that is works satisfactorily.

koehler
01-09-2005, 04:48 PM
Rialto's are a pain; but I just put in a complete new Coast 1B1X and find that is works satisfactorily.

Thanks, I may do that this week if the refit/tighten does not work.

Jetta
01-11-2005, 11:20 AM
The new 1B1-X ballcocks don't have the lower flush float valve that feeds the rim flush so I purchased the rebuild kit at a local DoItBest hardware store (part number 450758 O/M 1-25) and repaired our old one in about 10 minutes.




I've been struggling with another cranky Rialto style K-3397 and thinking a replacement of the 1B1X would be the next step. And I don't feel like spending $97.50 on a Kohler rebuild kit. I think I need to replace the flap as well.

Will I need to find the rebuild kit with the lower flush float valve for the K-3397 as well?

Any help on the 3397 is appreciated. Many thanks.

achimera01
09-26-2006, 12:45 AM
I am trying to sell them, any one know what they are worth. I have also heard them refered to as continuous flush toilets. Whats the deal with them?

hj
09-26-2006, 06:06 AM
Their worth ranges from whatever you can get for them, to whatever you have to pay to have someone take them away. But why would you want to. That toilet will not overflow if it gets plugged up, (and they do not make any new ones with that feature), which makes it ideal for a second floor bathroom. A new flapper and a 1B-1X fill valve makes them as good as new. The 1B-1X does not need the lower float. It uses a diversion valve to send a portion of the flow to the rim to assist with the flush. You cut the original plastic rim hose off and insert the smaller one from the 1B-1X into it.

rldev
10-03-2006, 08:47 AM
Does anyone know the ACE model number for the top cap?

deanalt
02-02-2009, 10:24 PM
Sorry to piggyback on this thread but it looks like a similar post and I need the photo of the fill valve in there.

Kindly help. I am almost at wit's end!

It's now been almost 2 weeks (a blown angle stop, soaking bathroom carpet and padding, 3 plumbers visits, etc) and I cannot recall exactly the problem with my toilet. For one thing, the old fill valve was spraying random jets of water out its side, getting too close to the mysterious four holes in the back of the toilet tank (which Kohler says were probably for hanging the toilets on the assembly line but just could be for some sort of vacuum/veniliation, so maybe I shouldn't block them!). I also think it had a slow leak, possibly due to a very worn flapper. The plumber took one look at the old valve and immediately decided to replace it with a PF140999 one piece ballcock by PROFLO (also replaced the flapper, which was very worn). This valve looks exactly like the photo HJ posted in this thread. Becasue I have a second such toilet upstairs with the original valve, I can see that this replacement valve is missing a swivel thingee on the side of the valve. Also, the outlet that connects to the front of the tank (for rim wash, I think) is positioned about 1.5 inches higher than on the original valve, therefore causing that line to be barely uphill whereas on the original, it is quite a bit more of an incline. Also, on the old toilet, it looks like the outlet on the fill valve for the rim feed fits right into the toilet tank's 6" curved, run of very hard plastic that runs all the way to the front of the tank; whereas with the new valve, it looks like this plumber may have cut out most of the hard plastic run and instead inserted about 6 inches of flex clear plastic hose that came with the new valve, inserting one end over the valve outlet and the other end into the only one inch of the hard plastic run. The difference being that water can conceivably leak into the hard plastic at a much higher height in the badly performing toilet than it can on the old unit (on the old unit, it can enter right at the low height of the outlet of the fill valve, but then has a much steeper uphill run).

The reason I mention all this is that, with this new fill valve (1 B1-X, which says it fits 7 brands of 1 piece toilets), I cannot get the fill valve to shut off 100%. There is always some hissing and, sometimes, almost randomly, 15 minutes later the quiet hissing slowly builds up and turns noisy (almost like the sound of a siphon pressure building up as it reaches full volume). At this point, I notice that the tank water level has dropped about 1/4 inch, where it stays, until I flush again. I notice that bubbles of water also can then be seen going through that clear tube feeding the rim of the bowl. And drops of water fall from the flex clear hose just where it enters the hard plastic run sometimes. It seems that some sort of odd siphoning action is happening here.

It is driving me nuts. So any of these clues above suggest why this is happening? The plumber, after 3 visits, has written it off as finicky and has lost interest, particularly in waiting for 15 minutes each time he adjusts to see if the noise goes away (he, apaprently, correctly tells me Kohler is still looking for a new supplier for what will apparently be a conversion kit, possibly becasue they know this system stinks and they expect it to cost over $100 when they finally find a manufacturer).

Manually lifting the rod always eliminates any noise so I assume that somehow or another, if the water level is dropping, the valve cannot cause the water level in the tank to refill high enough to shutoff the valve - the water must be leaking off into the bowl, or down the drain, I assume. The doughnut below the FLUSH valve may have a tiny, tiny slow leak. I have turned every screw, bent the lever arm, and nothing seems to work for more than 2 or 3 flushes in a row.

Thanks so much.
Dean

jimbo
02-03-2009, 07:07 AM
Hi All,


I can't seem to find much reference to the 3402PB model, only the 3402. Is it normally just referred to as the 3402, or do I have some other variant?

I am rather shocked to find that Kohler is almost entirely unavailable as an aftermarket parts pruchase.!


the "PB" is the reference to trim color, meaning polished brass handle.

I'm shocked, Ric, shocked!

deanalt
02-03-2009, 12:00 PM
With some further research, I find that my ProFlo after market fill valve is a private label for Ferguson Plumbing, coordinated by a firm called Lincoln Products. They tell me the 1 B1-X, despite the label Ferguson insists upon, is actually misssing a secondary float that is on the original Kohler valve and, indeed, I now see that is true. Apparently, that secondary float assembly and output for the rim wash will mount to the 1 B1-X in place of the current elbow and output (for rim wash) and that my plumber should have known to take the old secondary float and put it there. He apparently trashed it and dind't notice the difference in the new valve. In the plumber's defesne, the Ferguson packaging says nothing to indcate an additionaly piece is required for certain Kohler toilets. TheLincoln products guy says that Kohler does not allow anyone esle to make that secondary float and so it is not available and that the fill valve won't work without it. Kohler tech support says I don't really need the secondary float and, in fact, they often tell customers to get rid of it! They suggest that the plastic pipe going from the back of the tank to the bowl is not really a sealed entry and so it is necessary to make sure the water level is below where that pipe meets the china. It seems that the louder back siphoning noise is more of a problem when I set the tank water level lower, so I will try that.

They are suggesting that my new flapper (which is of the bulbous shape, not flat on the bottom, just needs to be worn in and, until then, the water may be escaping at exactly the rate the fill valve wants to pump it in, which is why the fill valve won't totally quiet down. She thinks it eventually will (use a small amount of vaseline, a plumbers trick) and that is my only real problem.

Well not quite: This supposedly very senior member of Kohler tech support also swears to me that the 1 B1-X fill valve should not let any water out between the very top cap and the second cap just below it (both come off when you unscrew the three screws), even though the latter has many circular holes in it. She says that is evidence of the after market part failing, even though it is brand new (and even though my other same toilet's valve lets some water out these openings and works fine). I have already unscrewed the top off twice to check for any sediment and the seating of washers and am reluctant to overtighten it, which could be the source of the water coming out near the top, assuming it's not supposed to. Can anyone address whether fresh water is supposed to come out the space between this top cap and the plastic disc right below it?

Thanks again for any answers!
Dean

weaver
02-03-2009, 06:08 PM
Two of the K3402 (1983, 1985) were in the house when I bought it. Both fill valves sprayed at the top (and through the holes in the back of the tank). I bought a Kohler repair kit (about $90). It sprayed from the top. I have replaced the Kohler fill valves with Fluidmaster #400A and the expensive Kohler flappers with Korky. I run plastic tubing through a rubber stopper inserted into larger tubing inserted for the rim wash. Works fine.

I have a Korky #528 fill valve in a Case kidney side handle (1926) that also works well and I would think it might serve as well as or better than the Fluidmaster #400A in the Kohler 3402.

It has occurred to me that it is possible that occasional high pressure (110psi) from hot water heating contributed to the Kohler fill valve spray. I don't have an expansion tank (yet).

Thanks for sharing your sleuth work with the techs. Interesting.

I have Kohler on a list with Moen.

Bob

deanalt
02-03-2009, 08:57 PM
Well, I am pleasantly surprised to report that, after about 10 flushes with the slight coat of vaseline on the 2-week old flapper, and after raising the water level from the too low level Kohler had been advising me to use (becasue I could see water leaking out mid hose at a junction), the unwanted siphoning action seems to have dissapeared and also very, very little water is now flowing (not spraying, fortunately) from the top cap of the fill valve now and, after a long 60 seconds or so, the toilet is now dead silent! It seems that the 4th Kohler tech may have gotten it right by mentioning the flapper. Apparently, the faster leak in the new flapper caused a pressure issue that caused more water to spray out the top of the fill valve cap and, despite that, sent the fill valve into an open loop where it would not shut off completely except at too low tank water levels which, about one minute later, casued a siphoning noise as I could see water running between the fill valve and rim wash areas. A comedy of errors with a simple, in hindsight, solution. Indeed, as you suggest, it does seem that the water flowing, even squirting out the top of the fill valve may be related to too much pressure on this finicky fill valve.

I have courageously, covered the four holes in the back of the tank, even though 2 of 4 Kohler tech advisors say that might not be a good idea! Idiot that I am, our bathrooms are carpeted, with padding no less - don't ask, so I don't want water escaping out the back of the tank (like you had)! Maybe, I'll uncover the hole on the other side from the fill valve, as a compromise.

Nevertheless, I appreciate your comments, Bob, since I (and others) was led to believe by Kohler that there were NO approved alternatives to this fill valve (and no alternatives whatsoever for the secondary float side attachment that mounts on it) and, as you may know, Kohler is still searching for a replacement manufacturer after Coast Foundries closed up shop. It sounds like, if they ever get it done, it will be a much better valve, though expensive (made in the US), but no promises as to when that will be. I think I will try the Fluidmaster unit next time around, regardless.

Any thoughts as to whether my plumber, by his 2nd unsuccessful re-visit to fix the hissing, should have suspected the flapper valve problem and interim vaseline solution?

Thanks all for your patience.
Dean

hj
02-04-2009, 06:20 AM
PB in a toilet model means "plain" or round bowl, as opposed to EB elongated bowl. PB means polished brass when it is attached to trim, such as the tank lever but that is discrete from, and in addition to, the toilet designation.

vinayg
03-04-2009, 03:16 PM
Hi All,

I was trying to find a cheap replacement for the fill valve repair kit.

I found

this (http://www.homefixitparts.com/plumbing/P2-04-210.php?part=P2-04-210&dept=Plumbing) for $37 shipped

and

one from plumbing$upply for $53 (84499-WF).

Anybody knows which would be OK or anything else which is better?

I know my cap is broken. Can I get away with just getting the Cap/Plunger kit and the Plunger repair kit, instead of the whole assembly? I don't see anything else that can be broken in that assembly. The real question is, will those repair kits fit on top of the original tube? My original valve looks exactly as shown in the picture by hj. There is no lower float.

Thanks in advance for any help.

SocialD
03-05-2009, 08:17 AM
I had a Rialto that would not stop running in the five years I've owned my house. I've spent $100 on the replacement parts to stop the problem once. I've also spent money for a plumber to fix the problem. I've replaced the flapper at least twice. I've tightened and loosened the screws which worked for about a week each time. All of these were temporary fixes. About four months ago it started getting progressively worse. Finally, after a $130 water bill I replaced it with a Toto Drake this weekend. I wish I would have done that in the beginning and saved myself the headaches and the money I threw down the drain trying to fix the thing.

vinayg
03-06-2009, 02:38 PM
I got the Coast ballcock 1B1X from Lowes B&M for $9 and it seems to be working fine. It is made by PlumbPak, model number PP830-13L, Item# 246711, UPC 046224024309.

There is a very very faint hissing sound, which I can hear only with the cover off and my ear close to the tank. It stops if I just touch the float rod. Any ideas on how to stop that?

pwjone1
04-26-2009, 08:38 PM
I got the Coast ballcock 1B1X from Lowes B&M for $9 and it seems to be working fine. It is made by PlumbPak, model number PP830-13L, Item# 246711, UPC 046224024309.

There is a very very faint hissing sound, which I can hear only with the cover off and my ear close to the tank. It stops if I just touch the float rod. Any ideas on how to stop that?

Sounds like the plunger isn't quite shutting off.

Some basic 101:

1. Check that the overflow tube is not "overflowing"
(should fill to the line, but no further, if it's overflowing, it will keep
running, but this seems a bit unlikely, usually not quiet when it does
this)

2. Check that the flapper is seating fully
(although this usually manifests as cycling, leaking into bowl.
food color test (drops in tank, if they show up in bowl, you have
leak)

3. Turn off water, off cap (3 screws), see that plunger is free, seated
correctly. Usually if that's a problem, you will see water leak out
or spay out of the top.

Past this point, gets trickier. If you have already solved the problem, post the solution here, and if not, then we'll have another go at it.

pwjone1
04-26-2009, 08:51 PM
I also have three old Kohler Rialto K-3402s. Not the best toilet made, tends to clog, but they were in the house when we bought it, and all are designer colors, matching the bathtubs, sinks, etc., so I'm inclined to keep fixing/rebuilding them, for now. (Note to self, always buy white). Don't live in an area with water supply problems, so at least I don't feel too guilty.

I did rebuild one about 5 years ago, that's been fine since, used the standard Kohler rebuild kit, wasn't easy to find, last rebuild kit at the plumbing supply or I would have bought more, but it worked, redid everything in the toilet. Now another Rialto is acting up, problem similar to some of the ones above, redid the plunger/fill valve recently, thought that would be it, but now it's cycling very slowly. Over an hour so so, loses enough water that the tank refills. Don't really hear much of anything, other than the valve is running very, very quietly, but not immediately. Tried two more Flappers, I think the seal with the flush valve is just not very good, but if I push down on them, seems to be OK for a while, but eventually cycles again. I for the life of me cannot figure out why redoing the fill valve plunger would have any impact on the flush valve/flapper side of things. Seat looks clean.

Any suggestions?

pwjone1
04-26-2009, 09:01 PM
The Coast 1B1X float valves were OK, in their day, but I'm kind of wondering if any of the more recent design fill valves can work in a Kohler Rialto K-3402 (pre-1998):

* Fluidmaster
* FillPro
* Korky

Here's the toilet specifics:

http://www.us.kohler.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/114396_8.pdf

The Float Ball is actually a fairly tight fit near the Flush Valve assembly, I worry a bit if the flapper is going to clear, and if the Ball is going to hit the side of the tank, etc. I noticed that Kohler in the evolution of the Rialto has used some non-ball designs, one looks like a Fluidmaster. And I seem to remember Fluidmaster at one time making a 1-piece tank replacement (doesn't seem to be obvious if they still have that).

But the part I cannot figure out, if I were to use one of the newer/cheaper fill/float valves, is how to do the diverter for the rim that Kohler has. This is a 2ndary float and valve type arrangement, big plastic tube, that comes out of the Coast 1B1X just under the top.

Thoughts?

pwjone1
04-26-2009, 09:09 PM
Two of the K3402 (1983, 1985) were in the house when I bought it. Both fill valves sprayed at the top (and through the holes in the back of the tank). I bought a Kohler repair kit (about $90). It sprayed from the top. I have replaced the Kohler fill valves with Fluidmaster #400A and the expensive Kohler flappers with Korky. I run plastic tubing through a rubber stopper inserted into larger tubing inserted for the rim wash. Works fine.

I have a Korky #528 fill valve in a Case kidney side handle (1926) that also works well and I would think it might serve as well as or better than the Fluidmaster #400A in the Kohler 3402.

It has occurred to me that it is possible that occasional high pressure (110psi) from hot water heating contributed to the Kohler fill valve spray. I don't have an expansion tank (yet).

Thanks for sharing your sleuth work with the techs. Interesting.

I have Kohler on a list with Moen.

Bob

I am thinking (see another append) about doing something similar. I have a few questions:

1. Where did you get the stopper with a hole in it? (Test Tube stopper or ?)

2. How did you adjust the amount of water running through it to the rim?

3. Any siphoning or other problems to worry about? Tube routing high?

Thanks.

Redwood
04-26-2009, 09:39 PM
The Coast 1B1X float valves were OK, in their day, but I'm kind of wondering if any of the more recent design fill valves can work in a Kohler Rialto K-3402 (pre-1998):

* Fluidmaster
* FillPro
* Korky

Here's the toilet specifics:

http://www.us.kohler.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/114396_8.pdf

The Float Ball is actually a fairly tight fit near the Flush Valve assembly, I worry a bit if the flapper is going to clear, and if the Ball is going to hit the side of the tank, etc. I noticed that Kohler in the evolution of the Rialto has used some non-ball designs, one looks like a Fluidmaster. And I seem to remember Fluidmaster at one time making a 1-piece tank replacement (doesn't seem to be obvious if they still have that).

But the part I cannot figure out, if I were to use one of the newer/cheaper fill/float valves, is how to do the diverter for the rim that Kohler has. This is a 2ndary float and valve type arrangement, big plastic tube, that comes out of the Coast 1B1X just under the top.

Thoughts?

No the hole for the fill valve is right in the corner of the tank there is not enough clearance for any of those fill valves.

pwjone1
04-27-2009, 03:51 AM
No the hole for the fill valve is right in the corner of the tank there is not enough clearance for any of those fill valves.

Thanks for the pointer, I'll certainly have to check the clearance on the units. However, it kind of looks like there's at least one append in this thread that says at least the Fluidmaster would work, earlier by Bob Weaver:


Two of the K3402 (1983, 1985) were in the house when I bought it. Both fill valves sprayed at the top (and through the holes in the back of the tank). I bought a Kohler repair kit (about $90). It sprayed from the top. I have replaced the Kohler fill valves with Fluidmaster #400A and the expensive Kohler flappers with Korky. I run plastic tubing through a rubber stopper inserted into larger tubing inserted for the rim wash. Works fine.

I have a Korky #528 fill valve in a Case kidney side handle (1926) that also works well and I would think it might serve as well as or better than the Fluidmaster #400A in the Kohler 3402.

It has occurred to me that it is possible that occasional high pressure (110psi) from hot water heating contributed to the Kohler fill valve spray. I don't have an expansion tank (yet).

Thanks for sharing your sleuth work with the techs. Interesting.

I have Kohler on a list with Moen.

Bob

Now, I'll grant you, I'm not sure what to make entirely of the 110psi hot water hook up, etc., but it does at least seem to indicate the Fluidmaster 400A and the Korky 528 (which is the standard Lavelle part, not the Toto variant, which is frankly tempting to try out in a one piece toilet (if it fits :confused:)). Granted, Lavelle looks like it comes out somewhat high, have to do some measurements, there, see if it clears the lid. The FillPro doesn't look like it would have clearance problems, thing is tiny.

I'll have to poke around, see if I can find somewhere that gives measurement/clearances on the units. Eyeballing the rim feed tube (a kind of big plastic piece on the Kohler 3402s), it does appear to be above water level, with the tank full (although the point where it leaves the assembly on the Coast fill-valve ends up under water), so if I worked the smaller tubes on these units into that opening, it would seem likely to work. Granted, not clear the water amount would be the same. That had been my primary concern, but I guess there are others.

Thanks for the guidance. Some things to think about.

RubenRZ3
07-28-2009, 03:34 PM
I bought a 3402 @ a habitat for humanity store. I had wanted one for a while but didn't want to spend so much. I found this gem for 25 dollars. But the filler valve was leaking I thought I was going to buy the whole kit for 118 locally. But you all helped me find the PlumPak and now it's not leaking and working great. And it only cost me 14 bucks to fix. So 39 bucks for a black Kohler in my book sounds like a deal and a half! Thx you all so much for the help!!!

Ruben

hnlulu
08-13-2009, 03:57 PM
Is their any way i can fix these toilets,they sweat and also leak from the supply line entry.Is their something new i can replace the original thanks joe

Gary Swart
08-13-2009, 04:14 PM
Are these low flow toilets or old 3 gallon per flushers? The reason they sweat is the water coming into the tank after a flush is cold. If your toilets are the antiquated 3 gallon models, you have 2 factors working against you. First, the old toilets dump the entire tank into the flush so 3 gallons of fresh cold water is required to refill the tank. New low flow toilets do not use all of the water in the tank so the incoming water is mixed with water already at room temperature. This alone reduces or eliminates sweating, but add to that that the volume of new water is only 1.6 gallons and sweating should not happen. If your toilet is an old one, replace it with a Toto Drake and live happily ever after. As far as the leaking supply line, what can I say? If it is leaking through a fitting, tighten it up. If the line is leaking, replace it. If the stop valve is leaking, tighten the packing nut. If this is beyond your abilities, hire a plumber.

dcrosamond
09-13-2009, 03:16 PM
I just replaced the ball cock flush assembly with new parts from Ace Hardware. It no longer part number 1B1X but is now part number 04-4165. State replacement for one piece toilets.

Comes with the tubing and the bar for the ball. Good to go and only $24.39 before tax.

Diane

netnexxus
09-20-2009, 06:09 PM
I have 4 Rialto 3402's and had constant problems with original Kohler plastic valves, I replaced them with the Coast copper /w plastic sleeve valves but these also started to leak after about 3 years and I could no longer find replacements or parts at my local supply house. About 4 years ago I got tired of the cost and hassle of having to repair/replace the valves on a regular basis and had decided to replace the toilets when I heard about a small company who was starting to market solid brass replacement valves for the 3402. The valves were perfect replacements and significantly better than the originals.

I recently experienced a very strange problem with the valves starting to leak a few hours after shutting off. I called the company and after trying a few of their suggestions, they replaced the valves. Working with this company is an incredibly satisfying experience. They make an excellent product and stand behind it. A very rare trait nowadays.

I wanted to recommend them to anyone looking to replace/repair the Rialto 3402 valves. Good luck

http://www.cescobrass.com/Model16ak.cfm

http://www.cescobrass.com/images/16ak_new.jpg

tgeorge1
09-26-2009, 11:24 AM
New to this board and probably haven't followed proper procedures for new post (sorry) but have a comment and question: After flushing, water level in bowl remains low. How do I raise the level of water in the bowl (pre-flush)?
tg

jadnashua
09-26-2009, 03:49 PM
You may not be able to...a toilet bowl is like a teakettle with a spout. You can only fill it so full before water comes out of the spout. Take a bucket of water and SLOWLY pour it into the bowl. See if it goes any higher after it sets for say 5-minutes after you finish...that is the maximum it will hold by design. Nothing you can do about it but replace with something better. Now, if the bowl holds more water than your current fill valve is providing, make sure that the tank level is proper. If that's good, make sure that the hose is pointed properly into the overflow tube in the tank. If both of those are good, then you might need to chose the manufacturer's specified fill valve - some of them balance the fill volumes to match your toilet better.

caplumb
10-02-2009, 09:13 PM
http://www.cescobrass.com/Model16ak.cfm

After reading many posts re: how to fix / replace fill valves of Kohler one piece toilets, I decided to try cescobrass replacement fill valves. Ordered them online, received within 10 days and installed them in 30 minutes flat. I am a novice at minor repair and a plumber quoted me $100 labor and $100 replacement Kohler fill valve. Cescobrass 16AK cost me $61 and 30 minutes of my time! The part is solid and replacement is easy. Instructions are clear.

It might have been cheaper to buy various repair kits and try to repair the topcap of the fill valve but with 5 year warranty, I prefer the Scovill Model 16AK Ballcock for Kohler Toilets from CescoBrass. Just a satisfied customer!

mprubin
01-17-2010, 07:50 AM
Hi:

I've kept four old rialtos going for 25 years using a mix of factory and aftermarket parts. Usually replacing top plunger along with new ballcock head piece will fix problem, plastic top piece seems to break within 2-3 years.

But here is an issue that doesn't seem to be mentioned in thread. I was getting refill from fill valve every few minutes so figured there was a leak into the bowl. Tried a number of new flappers and no relief. seat of flapper fiting seemed fine. Here was the problem. The tank flapper assembly is sealed between tank and bowl with a large permanent rubber fitting. Mine seemed pretty degraded and I thought there might be some leakage through it. Kohler apparantly thought so too, because they made a refit kit with a completely new seal and flapper mount/overfill drain. Real pain to install. have to cut old seal out and clean up residue. The new seal is two piece, you work bottom piece through hole and then there are clamping screws to compress the new seal in place. However, the factory kit didn't work because it always leaked from tank to bowl no matter how I adjusted clamps. So I used silicone to glue top and bottom new seals as well as clamping them. Problem solved. No more leaks into bowl and refills stopped. I don't know if kit still available, but look at part diagrams and will probably find its number. The clamping bars are obvious in the diagram. With drying times, its a two day job so doubtfull plumber would try it. So if getting a slow leak, it may not actually be flapper but flapper mount seal. If it looks degraded, it may be leaking. Of course I still have everyone's problem with that ballcock. There is an aftermarket one now made by larsen and I am going to try one of the cesco brass ones as well.

rvsarch
02-10-2010, 07:51 AM
I finally retired my three Rialto toilets. I installed shut off valves with 1/2" diameter tubing up to the the fill valve as recommended in the installation instructions but they were never strong performers and it took a lot to keep them working for twenty years. I replaced them with Toto Willingham toilets. They have a strong flush and look great. My wife likes the shelf molded into the tank cover. I especially like the ADA height and elongated bowl.

pwjone1
06-30-2010, 03:17 AM
I finally retired my three Rialto toilets. I installed shut off valves with 1/2" diameter tubing up to the the fill valve as recommended in the installation instructions but they were never strong performers and it took a lot to keep them working for twenty years. I replaced them with Toto Willingham toilets. They have a strong flush and look great. My wife likes the shelf molded into the tank cover. I especially like the ADA height and elongated bowl.

The problem for me is the colors of the toilets that are installed in the house. 3 bathrooms, all Kohler K3402 (Round), all different colors. None seem to be in the current Kohler catalog of colors. Replacing the toilet would mean then doing the bathrooms over (new sinks, new bathtub, probably new tile, etc.). Not that I wouldn't mind a better flushing toilet, might be a tad more ecologically correct with a lower flow toilet (although in our area, water is pretty plentiful), but the drag-along cost of redoing the bathrooms is a bit on the prohibitive side.

So I used the Kohler rebuild kit when the first toilet got into problems, that was expensive but worked well enough, 2nd. is having problems, about to do the same there. Mostly it seems that the rubber gasket at the bottom of the flush valve that gives out and leaks that causes me to do the rebuild, although I've done in the interim various flapper and fill valve plunger replacements, nothing too serious there. But the rubber at the bottom of the fill and flush valves eventually seems to give out, start to disintegrate. I also see some slight cracking in the plastic on the older fill valves, generally in the area around the where the screws attach the cap. I guess the plastic and rubber giving out after 20 years is not that big a deal.

One thing that does strike me as a bit odd, is that the various Fluidmaster, Korky, etc., replacement fill valves don't have a Kohler one-piece model. They are cheap, look like they'd fit, but they just don't seem in current models to have a bowl refill attachment to fill the rim. Doesn't seem like it would be all that difficult. I know a previous appender used a 400A and a rubber stopper fed by the refill tube, but it's unclear to me if that would get the right amount of water into the bowl.

I do notice that WDI (Axent) makes models where the amount can be controlled:

http://www.wdiplumbing.com/en/pro_detail.asp?pid=92&id=622

http://www.wdiplumbing.com/UploadFile/EditorFiles/2010-05/YX_20100528110327189.jpg

But I couldn't find a U.S. supplier for any of the WDI fill valves. Reading through the forums, I guess they get used in some Toto models, and dimensionally it looks like they'd work in a Kohler, but apparently not an option. The unit looks like a Lavelle, and truth be told, I'd prefer for parts and other reasons to stay U.S. based, but for now it looks like I'm stuck with one of the older ballcock arrangements, from Kohler/Cesco/Lavelle/Plumb Pak.

pwjone1
06-30-2010, 04:08 AM
I guess for the sake of completeness, for the K3402 Kohler toilet, here are some sources for replacement fill valves. Noting my research here, to maybe save some others some time. Mostly I'd still start with a trip to the local plumbing supply stores, their advice is generally quite valuable, but if you find the local suppliers don't have the parts, these are some sources.

Here is the URL for the Kohler parts:

http://www.kohlerserviceparts.kohler.com/ServicePartsPage.aspx?DocumentID=69aabf39b8254119a 55ef565bffa50c9&ModelID=c349f6539dd349209d19ef5b8a0c773c

(you can click on the parts you need, which is kind of helpful)

Kohler Rialto K3402 rebuild kit (84499) (http://www.kohlerserviceparts.kohler.com/AccessoriesInformation.aspx?ServicePartID=c2ab8806 a26c4a42b360c6fe671d9ddb&SearchedString=84499&PageNum=0&PageSize=12) (I've given the Kohler URL, there are other suppliers, and this includes both flush and fill valves)

Cesco Brass Scoville 16AK (http://www.cescobrass.com/Model16ak.cfm) (all Brass/Copper fill valve)

Homefixitparts.com Fill Valve (http://www.homefixitparts.com/plumbing/P2-04-210.php?part=P2-04-210&dept=Plumbing) (just the plastic fill valve, plus assorted hardware, less expensive)

Larsen Supply 04-9163 (http://www.ronshomeandhardware.com/Kohl-1B1X-Repl-Ballco-p/659225.htm?Click=7805) (Plastic + Brass/Copper, from China)

Ace Hardware Replacement Fill Valve (http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/productdetails.aspx?sku=4299814&source=GoogleBase) (Plumb Pack/Plastic)

Lowe's Plumb Pak varient (similar to the above) (http://www.lowes.com/pd_246711-143-PP830-13L_0_?newSearch=true&catalogId=10051&productId=3133281&Ntt=coast+1b1x&N=0&langId=-1&y=0&x=0&Ns=&storeId=10151&Ntk=i_products_cascade&ddkey=http:SearchCatalogDisplay)

I will at least give credit to Kohler, they're still around, and for the most part, they still stock parts. I guess a lot griped about the cost and variety of parts, and the ECs Kohler has made over time. I cannot really knock a company for trying to improve its product, and if a company is in business long enough, there will be quite a few models over time. And at least Cesco has a replacement product out, might be better than the original (I suspect that the Kohler parts are, too). But it would have been nice if something more standard current practice, with leak limiters, like Fluidmaster or Korky or similar, had a model that would fit. But at least there are alternatives.

DNSMD
09-29-2010, 07:04 AM
I have 2 of these toilets and the one upstairs was giving me real fits. Rebuilt the fill valve and replaced the flapper and adjusted everything as best I could but it always ran or failed to fully flush. I cleaned the holes under the rim and used vasaline on the flapper and replaced it several times as needed hard water conditions. I finally got fed up and replaced the fill valve with a Korky #528 Quietfill made in the US and it fits and adjusts to the proper water level (all the way down). I ran the overfill hose to the overfill drain had to buy longer hose but it now fills and shuts off and flushes completely! My only concern is the fact that there is no rim supply would it be ok to run the overfill hose to the rim rather than the overfill drain? Is this needed since the toilet seems to be working fine the way I have it set up, or am I asking for a future problem?

jadnashua
09-29-2010, 02:26 PM
Didn't realize Kohler separated the overflow and the rim feed. It shouldn't matter if you put the water there verses in the overflow...they both go into the bowl to eventually refill it. So, either place should be fine.

hj
09-29-2010, 06:23 PM
quote;
* Fluidmaster
* FillPro
* Korky
NONE of these have the rim flush provision that the Coast valve does, AND calling the FillPro a fill valve, for anything other than a decorative fountain or a horse waterer, is ridiculous. (AAnd since it is NOT an antisiphon valve it is NOT an approved device for a toilet tank)

chefwong
10-05-2010, 04:45 PM
Here's hoping the Cesco is the winner...
I just ordered one last night after the umpteenth time of buying a new flapper.

I would change the toilet in a heartbeat to a Toto but when we redid this one....I did a navy cast iron tub, navy sink and navy toilet.....I wouldn't mind paying the premium for a Navy Toto if they made such a beast

tombrock
10-15-2010, 08:21 AM
You can buy a Fluidmaster Universal Adjustable Anti-Siphon Fill valve from Lowes for less than $8 and clip the new clear fill tube using the supplied white clip to the edge of the original large diameter bowl wash tube that you disconnect from the original valve and leave in the unit in the unit. Just make sure the new tube points into the old tube correctly to prevent back spray. This has worked very well for me. I can Email a picture of the installation if anyone wants one.

Make sure the 3" flapper for the flush opening seals properly or the unit will leak into the bowl and cause the fill valve to cycle periodically. Many aftermarket flappers do not seal properly.

deanalt
10-18-2010, 01:00 AM
Over the last 1.5 years, occasionally I would hear this toilet hissing again. I would try more vaseline and that would usually help for a couple of months (I was advised that vaseline is not a good longer term solution). Now it has come back again and apparently I put too much vaseline on and that made the flapper seal even worse, and the old siphoning noise and no shut off symptoms came back again. So, I took all the vaseline off and that helped although it is still hissing.

I am confused in that, with the right amount of vaseline, the toilet works perfectly. You would think that means that the problem must be in how the flapper seals, right? As quickly as the tank fills up, unless that fit is really bad, you would think the noise would shut down for a few seconds, even if, after say 20 seconds, the bad seal would cause it to need to restart, wouldm't you. But it seems like it just does not shut off completely at all, sometimes.

What can explain this? If i lift the arm that the float ball is attached to , that definitely stops all noise.

Does anyone know if Kohler has finally found a good replacement manufacturer for this fill valve? Should I try another fill valve? Or maybe first, another flapper? Is the Korky flapper better than the Kohler one, perhaps?

Thanks
Dean

Redwood
10-18-2010, 06:16 AM
There is no right amount of vaseline.

Get a new flapper...

jadnashua
10-18-2010, 06:39 AM
Petrolium products and (most) rubber do NOT mix, and you'll ruin the rubber. If the seat where the flapper valve fits is not smooth and conforming to the flapper, it will leak. Defective flapper valves (those that don't have a nice even rim) can be caused by improper storage, or bad design, or poor quality control during manufacture. Now, it is possible that the whole assembly is not tight and it is leaking around the seal on the bottom. Often, though, if that is the case, it can leak onto the floor, but could just leak down the hole into the bowl.

If the fill valve needs to run to refill the toilet, it must be leaking somewhere! Unless the fill valve is not shutting off and water is going out the overflow because the tank level is too high, it is almost always the flapper (in toilets with flappers, anyway). Excessive water pressure can cause some toilet fill valves to 'weep', or continue to run. But then, it would be eventually getting high enough to go out the overflow.

Terry
10-18-2010, 09:48 AM
from hj

A new flapper and a 1B-1X fill valve makes them as good as new. The 1B-1X does not need the lower float. It uses a diversion valve to send a portion of the flow to the rim to assist with the flush. You cut the original plastic rim hose off and insert the smaller one from the 1B-1X into it.

http://www.terrylove.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5879&stc=1&d=1228432575

deana
10-18-2010, 11:47 AM
Thanks Jadnashua and Terry! As i posted 1.5 yrs ago in this thread (as deanalt, not deana), my plumber did use that very 1-B1-x valve but, during installation, even with the new flapper, which is roundish not flat where it seals by the way, he could never get the toilet to shutoff. Eventually, after two return visits, the plumber simply lost interest and blamed the bad design of the Rialto and/or the tube/seat where the flapper sits as maybe being uneven. I don't recall if, at the time, Kohler had no replacement for that seat or just that it seemed like a major job and my plumber couldn't promise me anything would help, but we didn't try to replace it! To the extent it is leaking, it is NOT leaking outside the toilet (thank god, because the bathroom has padding and carpet!).

Although I do know we have hard water, I have no reason to assume the valve is not working correctly. Occasionally, I do see water dripping out of the top of the valve while the tank is filling and am not sure if this is bad or intended. I could take it apart and recheck it, if that seems to be worth doing. In fact, I would love (no pun intended, Terry) if someone, looking at that photo, would tell me what all the screws (including the horizontal plastic bolt on the side) on that valve are for. At times, the toilet never shuts off and it is hard for me to fathom that the flapper seal is that bad. There must be something about the design of the valve adjustment arm that prevents it from fully shutting off, even if for just a few seconds. I try bending the arm, etc, and nothing seems to help! Clearly, i don't really know what I am doing. I never had these kinds of problems with my older toilets, and I am 57 years old! Sorry for the stream of consciousness!

That said, it sounds like the problem is in the flapper area. Maybe it was just poor quality control as jadnashua suggests (although I do recall switching it out with a used flapper from another same model toilet we have and that not helping, but maybe not). I seem to recall taking the new flapper back to the store and getting a replacement but am not sure (probably I just returned the valve). If so, the new flapper was no better. Ultimately, someone advised a thin coat of vaseline for a couple of weeks and that did, after a day or two, work. But the hissing eventually returned several times and each time, a little more vaseline eventually stopped it. But I do recall being told that was a bad long term solution and so, after 1.5 years of having vaseline on it, I can believe that the flapper is no good anymore. So, I will try a new one. Is any brand better than another for this specific model toilet?

By the way, the level of the water is not too high, in fact, it is decidedly low since, if it got too high, it seemed to cause even more of the incessant siphoning action back and forth. I was always confused by the bowl wash design, as to whether I could not allow the water level to reach where it seemed to be open procelain, so I kept the water level low. Once again, this toilet is beyond me, but I think Terry said it is a great design for a second floor installation and it is color matched to the sink and bathtub and pretty to boot, plus low flush, which is important here in thirsty Los Angeles.

All comments (including calling me an idiot) are welcome!

Thanks
Dean

Terry
10-18-2010, 01:36 PM
Sometimes the seal under the flush valve will leak on the Kohler one-piece toilets.
The seal between the porcelain and the flush valve itself.
Many plumbers don't check for that, they may check the flapper only.

deana
10-18-2010, 02:48 PM
I asked Terry this over the phone (the site would not let me log in), but I'd like others opinions, too:

From time to time, if I put a little vaseline on the flapper, I hear no hissing or dripping at all for a couple of months but, then later, it starts again, and I have to apply more vaseline which, after a day or two, usually stops the noise again. I am told this will only degrade the flapper faster but, frankly, after getting a new red flapper and installing a new (1 BX-1) fill valve, that was the only thing that would work (Kohler advised it). But the fact that the toilet is noiseless for a month or two at a time, doesn't that mean that the seal in (underneath?) the tank flapper assembly must be OK?

Thanks
Dean

PhilW
10-22-2010, 07:18 AM
I've been having a battle with my Rialto 30 yr old for a couple of months. Replaced the old valve with a Cesco and it seems to work fine. Also replaced the flapper with one from Ace hardware. Everything seems to work OK with the exception that the bowl does not always fill back up. Sometimes it is Ok, & others it is very low. Does anyone have an idea how to solve this?

And, now to make matters worse, the flapper all of a sudden does not seat and the toilet runs until flipping the lever a couple of times. I've wondered if the flapper and the float ball are too close to each other causing the flapper to not seat. Have any of you changed the float ball to solve this?

Any ideas will be most welcome! Thanks very much.
Phil

jadnashua
10-22-2010, 09:51 AM
The fill valve fills not only the tank (where the shutoff is), but it must fill the bowl to the proper level. If the valve doesn't balance the fills to both locations, the tank can fill before the bowl does. So, when you flush, the first flush doesn't work well, but leaves the bowl full. The next time, it flushes, but the bowl doesn't fill back up. And, it then alternates good/bad until you get a fill valve designed for your bowl/tank volumes and they both get filled properly each time. Most fill valves overfill the bowl, but it appears yours doesn't.

PhilW
10-22-2010, 10:21 AM
Thanks for you response. In my situation it seems there are only 2 ways to get water back into the bowl. One is via the rim flush/wash and the other is thru the flapper. Question: Could it be that the rim flow shuts off too soon? If I slowed the incoming water so the tank would fill slower perhaps the rim flow would run longer? Or could the flapper be closing too soon? If that is case I'm not seeing a way to slow down when it drops back into the closed position.

The valve is one designed for the Kohler Rialto so I'm not thinking that is the problem.
Phil

jadnashua
10-22-2010, 06:34 PM
The rim holes might be full of mineral deposits after all these years, restricting the flow. So, take a coat hanger, and see if you can open them up some. The bowl gets filled by the hose going to the overflow and needs to be balanced properly so it fills the bowl by the time the tank is full.

hj
10-23-2010, 09:17 AM
Deanalt; Your description is too long and convoluted to read through the whole thing, but I did get to the spot where you mentioned the float rim valve. The 1B-1X uses a diversion valve to control the flow to the rim. IT is adjusted by the screw knob on the front of the valve. You have to cut off the large plastic tube from the old valve and then cut the clear plastic tube from the 1B-1X to fit inside it. The only FillPro valve I know of is a little plastic thing that sets on the bottom of the tank. If that is the one you are referring to it is NOT code approved and should only be used in horse waterers and decorative fountains. They were correct in saying that the "rim float valve" was not necessary, BUT you DO need something that replaces it. Conventional fill valves, such as Fluidmaster or FillPro, do NOT have anything that substitutes for it. ONLY the 1B-1X has that feature. The water should NOT spray out of the top of it, regardless of the water level in the tank, and when the tank is full the valve should shut almost immediately.

theref
11-01-2010, 12:26 PM
Several questions:
1. Having the same flush and delayed leak issue.
2. Bought a seal repair kit at McLendons-the only place locally that seems to carry Rialto parts
3. The replacement plunger for inside the 3 screw top cap did not fit. I used the old worn one.
4. How do you adjust the water level in the tank and in the bowl?
5. What is the purpose of the lower float? Mine does go up but is under water by the time filling stops.

Terry
11-01-2010, 12:47 PM
The Kohler Rialto has many, many variations. We would need a picture of the inside of the tank, and any numbers that are stamped inside the tank.,

theref
11-02-2010, 06:34 AM
The Kohler Rialto has many, many variations. We would need a picture of the inside of the tank, and any numbers that are stamped inside the tank.,

I hope that picture of inside of tank is actually attached

kwsundell
11-14-2010, 08:23 PM
The Fluidmaster 400A Fill Valve works perfectly and really cleans up the inside of the tank. I just inserted the refill tube on the Fluidmaster in to the clear tube on my Kohler toilet and was good to go. I had the outlet on the Fluidmaster pointed about 1:30 which allows you to sweep the refill tube around and in to the clear tube. Make sure you set the water level properly and you shouldn't have any problems. FYI, I just purchased a Kohler toilet at Lowes. It appears to have a Fluidmaster Fill Valve but with a red cap that says Kohler. If anyone needs a picture, let me know. Don't have to worry about that stupid float arm with the huge ball on it any more. It also eliminates any clearance problems between the float ball and the flapper valve. The Fluidmaster costs about $6.00.

KenS999
12-11-2010, 09:00 PM
I too had a leaky fill valve on a Rialto toilet spraying water out the tank holes and causing a BIG mess. A quick "temporary " fix was to put an empty "small" butter container over the top of the leaky valve with a slot cut in it to allow for the arm to the ballcock. It captured all the spray that then eventually fell down into the tank. Its the only toilet I have....and I can now use it till I find a rebuild kit.

jerry k
12-13-2010, 03:30 PM
Hi folks,
I have a Kohler Rialto K-3402 PB from the early 1980s and had a plumber in and was told parts are no longer available to completely rebuild of the unit. Does anyone know if this is correct ? If not, can you advise on what parts are needed and where they can be purchased.
If a rebuild is not an option I will have to replace it with a new Rialto K-3386 (same specs as the 3402) due to tiled floor/walls.
Any input, pros/cons about the K-3386 would also be greatly appreciated.
I would like to thank you all in advance for any/all input.
Jerry K

jadnashua
12-13-2010, 05:10 PM
Unless they cut the tiles around the toilet rather than running them underneath like they should, then the tile shouldn't be an issue on what you use to replace it.

jerry k
12-13-2010, 06:40 PM
Jadnashua--
Thanks for your reply--unforunately they were cut around the bowl. Any other input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Jerry K

deana
06-27-2011, 01:21 PM
Sorry for not checking back sooner, hj - sorry. Life continues on much the same way: Every few months, the toilet starts hissing and I can see the water in the bowl has tiny waves. I put a little vaseline on the flapper and it is quiet as a mouse for another few months. The same thing happened with a new flapper as with the old one. It would seem to me that this means that the surface where the flapper seals must be uneven. Fortunately, and coincidentally, a Kohler rep told me that my circular overflow valve is too narrow and they now have a rectangular repalcement "flush valve kit" that is free from them. So, I am planning on replacing that and hoping that will fix the problem for a long time.

I am a little confused about the rim wash issue as someone (below) suggests that a different type of value works fine KWsundell below likes Fluidmaster 400A Fill Valve. You seem to think the 1b1x is the only appropriate repalcement if you want the rim wash. Is that true?

My conclusion is that, whenever water somehow leaks, it is possible that, if you have modified the rim wash from the original using the 1b1x tube, you will get very noisy siphoning action back and forth leading you to believe that the problem is somewhere else than where the flapper seals. Also, this 1B1X valve seems to have a propensity to spray in random directions and, given the holes Kohler puts in the back of the tank (to hang them to dry after painting, I've been told), this is an accident waiting to happen. I covered those holes on the outside with duct tape and that seems to work.

I have two more toilets just like this but they work fine, even though the fill valve sprays in random directions on those too, but with the duct tape, it is not an issue.

Comments solicited. Thanks all.

sam02135
07-25-2011, 07:21 PM
I purchased two Rialto for my rental units. Had an issue with one where the fill valve would not stop and the suggestion from Kohler was to use vasaline, clean the valve etc. Crap (no pun intended)! Kholer is pissing (no pun intended again) me off with their answers: you have to buy a fill valve from us for the Rialto, etc.. BS! The fluidmaster replacement ($10) works perfect! It doesn't cost me $90 for the part which would be 1/3 the cost of the toilet. Kholer acts as if they're Apple Computers.. buy the part from us that you have to.

As for the flush valve, well . the problem is that these toilets 2005 never flushed that well because it's a rim flushing bowl mechanism. I'm trying to get more water in the tank on the Rialto to get a better flush but their flush valve is unique. Any suggestions for replacement flush valve?

donnjen
08-22-2011, 11:13 AM
Partly because of the color, partly because I like to try to DIM, and in order to try to keep it from the landfill, I've been trying to get our Rialto 3402 to work again. Before coming upon your excellent website, I bought and installed, unfortunately, the conversion kit from Kohler (I'd replaced the fill tube with a Fluidmaster years ago without realizing it had no outlet for the rim holes). On flushing, nothing came out the rim holes (I've cleared them out with a paperclip and vinegar and a few do let water out when I pour it through the plastic tubing). I've replaced the water supply from underneath the tank to the wall as well. In the process of checking the tank, the "fill valve diverter/fill valve float" (the black attachment that the rim fill tubing attaches to) snapped off (with hardly a touch!). I"m out $120+ - should I see if Kohler will return my $$$? I see the fill valve diverter is available for under $10 elsewhere so if they don't at least replace that piece I could try taht option. On the other hand, am I throwing good money after bad to keep trying? Since I moved the toilet to a different bathroom than where it was first installed, it only fits up against the back wall. Will that be a problem with the infamous 4 holes on the back of the tank?

Thanks for any help you can offer on these numerous questions.

KenS999
09-20-2011, 07:20 PM
I replaced the original fill valve in a Kohler Rialto 3402 with a 7 dollar Fluidmaster 400A from Walmart. A suprisingly easy job, as I am definitely not a plumber. I simply trimmed a few inches off the supplied thin black overflow hose and tucked it inside the original large diameter hose that supplies the rim rinse for the bowl. The new flush valve works just fine, and turned out to be an inexpensive and easy repair.

Thanks,
Ken

DurtyHairy
10-23-2011, 02:22 PM
I just replaced a coast 1b1x with the Plumb Pak PB830-13L Item #246711 from Lowes marked as a Coast ballcock 1B1X replacement that is identical to the one pictured in post 45. It was an easy fit and came with the rim supply hose that fit a nipple in the bowl inlet to the rim flush. It works fine. This tank may not even be a Kohler though it looks like one but has no lettering behind the seat and no numbers in the tank. The original slow fill and flushing problems also went away when I opened the angle stop which had probably been half closed to deal with the hissing.

CoastProductsUSA
11-11-2011, 02:01 PM
1451714518

Purchase direct from Coast Products USA, formerly Coast Foundry and Mfg. We have over 112 variations in Flush and Fill Valves, and can build basically anything you like!
Also ask about our Plumber Direct Pricing, for Industry Professionals.

http://www.coastproductsonline.com

Asiangem
11-24-2012, 11:26 PM
Hi folks,
I have a Kohler Rialto K-3402 PB from the early 1980s and had a plumber in and was told parts are no longer available to completely rebuild of the unit. Does anyone know if this is correct ? If not, can you advise on what parts are needed and where they can be purchased.

Jerry K

I have four Kohler Rialto K-3402 PB which were purchased in 1983 for a rental duplex unit. The fill valve was replaced with a Fluidmaster 400 series and works fine on all four Rialtos. I have a round, black flush valve (sorry I can't see the manufacturer name on it) which has a Korky Flapper No 58BP. These are working perfectly fine, with no leaks, no sounds or hisses even with the fact that tenants use them.

Asiangem
11-24-2012, 11:29 PM
pwjone1 (Paul Jones) - WOW...thank you for the summary of this thread for the Kohler Rialto Model K3402 - see pwjone1 (Paul Jones) summary of all the suggested parts to use for the K3402 -- took some time to put together since there has been so much written.

wlfhnd66
12-11-2012, 11:57 AM
I want to thank Ken and other members of this forum for pointing the way. I have a sky blue Kohler Rialto 3402 that was installed in 1987. I had many years of trouble free use but like all things the inside of the tank wore out. I was looking to replace the fill valve that would not stop. I looked for a replacement but I was a little shocked at the price for this item and I was not willing to pay $90 something for it. After I read some of these posts, I bought the Fluidmaster 400A from Walmart for less than $7 and a Fluidmaster universal flapper for $5 to replace the original that had just about disintegrated. I was pleasantly surprised at how easy the Fluidmaster 400A is to install. I just made sure that I read the instructions and understood what had to be done. The only problem now is that the fill valve goes off occasionally for a few seconds but Fluidmaster says that I should make sure the flapper seals drainage opening of the flush valve. I am working on that.

Gregg

Terry
12-11-2012, 12:40 PM
If the Fluidmaster refill tube is pointing too far down the overflow tube, it will siphon water from the tank, causing constant refills.

steveshrews
08-11-2013, 06:48 AM
I just used the Coast ballcock 1B1X kit from Lowes - in stock at the store. PP830-13L, item # 246711. It cost around $10. I also bought 1 foot of plastic hose with a 1/2 inch ID and 5/8 OD. You'll only need 8 or 9 inches, but 1 foot is the shortest length they will cut.
This looks different from the original, in that the separate diverter mechanism is not there, both the tank and bowl shutoffs are together in the upper housing controlled by the main float. The bowl is filled from the plastic arm with the 90 degree bend.
At least in my case the hose going to feed the bowl was too wide to fit the nipple on the bend. There wasn't enough room to use an adapter for the different sizes. Unlike the recommendation in the earlier post (#45 where I got this picture), I was uncomfortable cutting the original hose inside the toilet. That's where the new hose comes in. It fits inside the existing hose and also onto the nipple.
I put the new hose into the existing one as far as it would go, marked the length removed it and cut off the excess. The right angle bend goes in and out of the main housing easily. I removed it and put it on the new hose, then put the new hose back into the old one. I installed the main valve assembly in the toilet, then put the right angle tube back in. It might be easier to put the tube on first, but this was just the way I did it because I got ahead of myself (I'm an amateur, OK!). The new 1/2 inch tube might have to back out of the old one by an inch or so to fit, but that's OK.
The first time you flush, the bowl will probably not fill completely. The large screw on the tank fill pipe controls the flow of water. If you tighten it, the tank will fill slower and the valve will stay open for the bowl longer. Just some simple trial and error to get it set correctly so the bowl fills fully.
21185

khinanight
08-11-2013, 02:41 PM
After all these years....why does everyone still want to keep the Rialto around when there are so many better flushing toilets around? Toto has the round Ultramax MS853113E that uses less water and is more efficient in waste removal. Its taller but If you must have a low-boy then choose the MS863113E.

pwjone1
04-13-2014, 07:44 AM
After all these years....why does everyone still want to keep the Rialto around when there are so many better flushing toilets around? Toto has the round Ultramax MS853113E that uses less water and is more efficient in waste removal. Its taller but If you must have a low-boy then choose the MS863113E.

The simple answer for me is that the Kohler Rialto toilets came in colors, and the colors are very difficult to match with the existing tub, sinks, and tile. So I keep nursing them along until I do a bathroom re-do. Could pretty easily plop in a white toilet, but it wouldn't look right (we have one grey, one pink, one raspberry (sort of a dark red, burgundy-purple). Had a talk with the local Kohler dealer, did not seem we could even custom order one. Lesson learned, from here on in buy white.

I recently stumbled across this thread again, as I was having trouble with one of the Rialtos that I rebuilt with a Cesco Brass Ballcock:

http://www.cescobrass.com/Model16ak.cfm

http://www.cescobrass.com/images/16ak_new.jpg

and a Kohler Flush Valve kit:

http://www.us.kohler.com/us/catalog/partProductDetails.jsp?partNumber=83650

http://kohler.scene7.com/is/image/PAWEB//83650/?layer=comp&fmt=jpeg&qlt=85,1&op_sharpen=0&resMode=sharp2&defaultImage=defaultsquare&iccEmbed=0&wid=396&hei=297

The water was running, wasn't shutting off. Poked around, and it appears that the Kohler Flush Valve washer is disintegrating, it's a $3 part:

http://www.us.kohler.com/us/catalog/partProductDetails.jsp?partNumber=53410

http://kohler.scene7.com/is/image/PAWEB//53410/?layer=comp&fmt=jpeg&qlt=85,1&op_sharpen=0&resMode=sharp2&defaultImage=defaultsquare&iccEmbed=0&wid=396&hei=297

so I'll probably replace it shortly, but had other projects, so for now tightened down on the screws for the lugs (I could tell there was some problems because one was loose to essentially finger touch), seems to be OK for now. Would have hoped for a little more life out of the Kohler replacement part, but oh well.

I'm pretty happy with the Cesco Brass ballcock as a replacement for the Kohler part, the diverter valve was a bit tricky so I just stuck with the old Kohler one, and the unit has performed fine, at least so far. It is a bit slower/quieter than the Kohler replacement part (which I have in another of the toilets).