Just What Does Ian Gills Understand?

Wrong thing to say Ian. If one person, had a gun aboard one of those planes, a good passenger; lives would had been saved. Lots and lots of lives, plus, saving the hearts of those who live without those loved ones.

It wasn't London it happened in right? They weren't heading for your capitol right? Or your whitehouse right?

The man who shot John was insane. Were they who flew our planes into our buildings?

9/11 was no more than 3000 deaths.

The London bombings killed another 56.

Madrid train bombing killed 191.

But you've got to ask why they bother when Americans kill 10,000 of each other every year with guns?

Ban guns. It's a no-brainer.

What makes the lives of those lost to guns so worthless to you guys?

One time I asked my father if paid killings were like in the movies. Killers in cars waiting to run someone down with their cars.
His response.

"No. Before they get to their car, they grab them, and then smash their head against the ground until they are dead. They need to make sure the person is dead before they can leave. It happens all the time."

It was a bit chilling to hear that from him.
Every once in a while, I would hear something from him, that I wasn't getting in the papers. Things that didn't make the papers. But then, he was a judge, and was in contact with law enforcement all the time.

Okay, Ian, whatever you say... LOL.

Ian Gills said:

9/11 was no more than 3000 deaths.

The London bombings killed another 56.

Madrid train bombing killed 191.

But you've got to ask why they bother when Americans kill 10,000 of each other every year with guns?

Ban guns. It's a no-brainer.

What makes the lives of those lost to guns so worthless to you guys?

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I got to admit it makes me laugh Ian, at your perception of things at times. Here we got terriorists who took over our planes and flew them into major buildings taking countless lives in I can only imagine being aboard any of those planes in terror, which is what they wanted; countless lives lost in buildings where people had to choose quickly whether to jump or to burn, and then, those the loved ones of those who perished get to live with this all. But, you somehow are able to turn it all around and compare it to we don't care about the loss of lives due to a gun.

I bet anyone of those people aboard any of those planes wished at a fleeting moment they had one.
If we forget what happened, or take it casually, it is a sure bet, it will happen again. We need marshalls aboard each plane, 2 of them, armed, and we need 2 on each plane, or else, it would be 2 against one fighting for the lives of everyone aboard that plane and the lives of those on the ground it will hit if unsuccessful.

Anyone who travels alot, who flies alot, knows the risks. It amazes me that in this age of terriorism, with many things going on, you want only the criminals to be the only ones with weapons. You naively think, this is going to stop them from getting them and will reduce deaths. What are you thinking? If you do your homework, even within your own county, polls show that your people want the right to bear arms and defend their lives and families.

Like I said, I would bet the number of lives saved per year due to someone having a gun is enoromous. Onto the list we could had easily added on alone, 3,000 Ian. AND, all the other events, all other bombings, and events of destruction, all those lives lost. Do they not count Ian? They could had been saved. Multitudes of people.

This is not a perfect world, we cannot act as it is. It is a troubled world. And, taking away a person's rights to defend theirselves is clearly, not the answer. Handing them a stick, or a stone, or tell them to use their own body weight, does nothing against someone or something, with a bomb, gun, or big teeth and claws.

Empower the people not the other way around.

The phone line from Flight 93 was still open when a GTE operator heard Todd Beamer say: 'Are you guys ready? Let's roll'

Sunday, September 16, 2001

By Jim McKinnon, Post-Gazette Staff Writer

"Are you guys ready? Let's roll!"

That's how Todd Beamer lived.

And that's how he died, helping to lead a takeover by passengers on United Airlines Flight 93, which crashed Tuesday in Somerset County. It was the fourth plane to go down in last week's terrorist attacks.

Todd Beamer

Beamer, an Oracle Inc. executive from Hightstown, N.J., and others are being credited with foiling hijackers bent on crashing the Boeing 757 into what authorities say might have been a second target in Washington, D.C., possibly the Capitol or the White House.

Flight 93 had left Newark, N.J., at 8 a.m. Tuesday, bound for San Francisco.

"That's Todd," his wife, Lisa, said yesterday of the "Let's roll!" command, which he made over the plane's in-flight telephone. A GTE supervisor talked with him for about 13 minutes before the plane crashed.

"My boys even say that. When we're getting ready to go somewhere, we say, 'C'mon guys, let's roll.' My little one says, 'C'mon, Mom, let's roll.' That's something they picked up from Todd."

Beamer, 32, told the GTE supervisor, Lisa D. Jefferson, that he and others on the plane had decided they would not be pawns in the hijackers' suicidal plot.

Jefferson told him about the other hijackings and Beamer made her promise to call his wife and their two boys, David, 3, and Andrew, 1.

Beamer's call connected at 9:45 a.m. He told Jefferson there were three hijackers, armed with knives. He did not know their nationalities or their intentions.

One of the men had what appeared to be a bomb tied to his midsection with a red belt.

Beamer said he could account for 37 of the plane's 38 passengers. The hijackers had forced 27 of them into the first-class compartment near the front.

Beamer, nine other passengers and five flight attendants were ordered to sit on the floor in the rear of the plane.

He did not know the whereabouts of the pilot, copilot and the remaining passenger. He said a flight attendant had told him the pilot and copilot had been forced from the cockpit and may have been wounded.

Two of the hijackers were in the cockpit with the door locked behind them. The man with the bomb stayed in the back of the plane, near Beamer's group.

With him were others who placed cell-phone calls from the plane, Jeffery Glick, 31, a sales manager for a technology firm, Thomas Burnett Jr., 38, a California businessman, and Mark Bingham, 31, a former college rugby player from California. Beamer mentioned Glick by his first name in the call to Jefferson, Lisa Beamer said.

Toward the end of his conversation with Jefferson, Beamer said the plane appeared to have changed directions a few times. Later, it would be determined that it had flown west from Newark to near Cleveland, then turned back to the southeast toward Pittsburgh.

Beamer became anxious.

"Oh! We're going down!" he shouted at one point.

He paused, then said in a calmer voice, "No, we're OK. I think we're turning around."

Beamer then told Jefferson that he and the others had decided to "jump on" the hijacker wearing the bomb.

Jefferson could hear shouts and commotion and then Beamer asked her to pray with him. They recited the 23rd Psalm.

He got Jefferson to promise that she would call his family, then dropped the phone, leaving the line open.

That's when Jefferson heard what Lisa Beamer believes were her husband's last words: "Let's roll."

Then there was silence. Jefferson hung up at 10 a.m. EST, realizing that the plane had gone down. Officials said it crashed at 9:58 a.m.

Although it's not yet clear what Beamer, Glick and the others were able to do, they are being hailed as heroes for forcing the plane down in a remote strip mine area in Stoneycreek, Somerset County, about 80 miles southeast of Pittsburgh.

"When the plane started to fly erratically, he said he knew he wouldn't make it out of there," said Lisa Beamer, who is expecting their third child in January.

Lisa Beamer said reports of her husband's heroic role had "made my life worth living again." Jefferson kept her promise and called Lisa Beamer at 8 p.m. Friday.

"It was the best thing that I could've gotten [Friday]. It totally changed the mood around here," Lisa Beamer said.

Jefferson, reached by telephone yesterday, declined comment. She said GTE's parent company, Verizon, may issue a statement tomorrow about Beamer's call.

Lisa Beamer said the call she received from Jefferson had lifted her family's spirits.

"We all knew what kind of person Todd was. We know he's in heaven. He was saved," Lisa Beamer said.

"Just knowing that when the crisis came up he maintained the same character we all knew, it's a testament to what real faith means.

"It's been a real uplift. It's put a spring in my step that I didn't have since Monday."

The couple met at Wheaton College near Chicago, hometown for both of them. After graduation and marriage, they moved to New Jersey and both took jobs at Oracle before starting a family.

"He's a great guy in a crisis. He would have had his family in the forefront of his thoughts. And he would not let other people overpower him," Lisa Beamer said.

If Todd had a pistol with him, the plane might have survived.

Funny how I used to fly all the time with a pistol in the good old days before Muslims decided we all needed to die. Then, I think the Cubans were the issue.

My uncle was a military dog trainer, pilot, and sky marshall. Had he been on that flight [as all flights should have] that plane would have landed with several crazies in body bags visiting their thousand virgins.

5$ per ticket would put a guard on every flight in the US.

Now THAT'S a tax we need. Or take it from the teachers and municipal morons in Wisconsin and California, and ........ name your sate.

I find it appalling that not on each flight there are marshalls. Just think about it. Talk about weapons, that plane can be a huge one. It cannot be taken for granted that all weapons are being found before boarding, and no one should die because of it. Those people aboard those planes deserve to have a chance. Without marshalls your chance of survival if something would happen is none. I read an article once, and I can't find it, but it said it would raise the ticket price alot. Who cares? A five buck tax is great but, so is any amount. It is a new world in flying and the owners of the airlines have to really realize this.
How sad, but how so true. Remember the shoe bomber? Unbelievable. Eventually, we will have nothing but buck naked people boarding the planes, and sadly, will still not be enough. And, some people just look alot better with their clothes on.

So, enlight of that, I am back on the treadmill. I am vain.

Yes, that is a tax we need. Or just raise the price of the ticket to cover the sky marshall's wages. I would pay it. Gladly.

Sigh.

So you guys don't mind paying more for a marshall on every plane but when it comes to paying a little more tax to put every kid through a good school, provide universal healthcare, salaried firemen and prevent global warming that's all a no-no.

I just don't get it.

You are scared of the wrong things.

Oh, brother.

Ian Gills said:

Sigh.

So you guys don't mind paying more for a marshall on every plane but when it comes to paying a little more tax to put every kid through a good school, provide universal healthcare, salaried firemen and prevent global warming that's all a no-no.

I just don't get it.

You are scared of the wrong things.

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Here is a overly long complimentary primer on how to get it:

We need good PARENTS, and TWO of them. Kids in the inner cities might as well have wolves as parents.

And we need good TEACHERS. With batons and the right to use them. So many are just absolute dopes on the dole.

Kids need absolute protection from violent video games, of which 99% qualify. Back to pac-man.

Too many firemen already, And notably, I just discovered a government program with free dental, vision and health care for any child to 19 years. Parents can make from 35,000$ to 60,000$ dependant on # of kids in the house. Its just not advertised. A very small co-share payment.

Virtually every state gives you what we call medi-cal if you really are poor, with varying levels of cost share from 0 to 100 bucks a month. Cheaper than the UK, I'm sure and the level of care can be good.

My renters are on medi-cal, and their access to health care is better than my private policy. They get $200 a month in food stamps and a NON church organized food bank packs their gut with anything they want.

In the saga of educating you on Americas nature, I have known and employed a LOT of the poor, and they do not have the wherwithal and ambition to fill out the forms to get the free care.

Then they don't have the brains to check their engine oil and tire pressure, so their cars become lawn ornaments. Or they have a DUI.

I have one worker with great skills in one place. On every other level he is brain dead.

I have to buy him cars, insure them, and make a maintenance agreement in my micro loans to him.

I bought him 16 acres and a mobile and sold it to him on a private note for 30 years. [way out in the outback on a BAD road, granted] ....My other guys fix his water system, fixtures and tow him out when he slides off his road.

Won't get medi-cal, rather pulls his own teeth as they rot out. Offered to buy his eye checkup- no ambition to make the call.

Got registered as a sex offender because he sniffed the hair of a 17 year old gaggle of sluts at the county fair [and their boyfriends watched] Saved him from the big house with my lawyer.... [cops and DA suck and "womens advocate" programs just need to make a quota for convicting 'perverts' to stay on the dole]

Finally, we must open every import container that hits our docks, and make the sender pay for the inspection. We would stop the drugs that poison our kids and reduce our trade deficit by 2/3's by discovering all the counterfeit high end items and mis-marked items that should have duties imposed.

No politician has the gonads to do the job.

So the moral is, many of the poor Americans still have the "pioneer" spirit and forego the programs available to them.

The Brits have a culture of "take care of me", and so skip pulling their own teeth.

With all these "pioneering" poor people in the US, it makes you wonder why the more conservative groups in society keep wining about "entitlements" and "milking the system".

Clearly they are very much uninformed.

I say let Wisconsin keep collective bargaining if the poor don't know how to use it anyway.

In short...I don't believe you.

There are no safety nets for the poor here. Because y'all too tight to pay for them.

Stop in at your local social services office and get the laundry list of what care programs are available.

Private help helps a lot. My worker and renters would be living in a shopping cart without my payroll deductions and the Gov. assistance that you have not researched well.

"Micro loans" from me have saved countless workers from the streets - its actually a big UNESCO program for 3rd world countries now. I assume many employers utilize this system.

Another set of renters are totally on the dole from 2 semi retarded kids. Beautiful mobile I rehabbed with all pine floors and cadet 3's.

And when I got here I was dirt poor. Raised pigs and grew all my food. But the nuns taught me to fill out forms and to persist.

bought 12 beautiful acres with a creek and pine trees that England only has in parks. Built the house with them. Got a private loan to make the start.

You may be reading the wrong writers on Americas woes.

Help the poor that want to work and the mentally deficient. Let the remainder eat cake.

I agree. But my point has always been that America does a lousy job of helping the poor that want to work.

This is because some of you are so pre-occupied with looking after yourselves, what you like to call "personal responsibility", that you have become a little tight in the purse strings.

The requirements are simple.

A good, free education. Means-tested. Even university education. No poor, bright kid left behind. Schools should be free for kids from poor families, even the meals. All schools should be open to kids from all areas. Rich area schools should have quotas for enrolling kids from poor backgrounds. The Feds should be queueing up to pay for bright poor kids. But I don't see 'em.

Good, free access to healthcare, drugs and dental. Means-tested. No questions asked. One form (your W2). No co-pays. If you are poor, you get it. Kids shouldn't even need a form. If you're a kid you should get free healthcare. Period.

An allowance to cover job search costs. How else can a poor person afford to find a job?

Generous benefits for the unemployable through disability; injury on the job etc.

If you do these things the country will get more back in taxes that it would ever spend in providing them.

A parable: There was once an esteeemd professor of economics at a major university who had a reputation for being a very harsh grader. One semester he had a student, who we will call Ian. Ian was a very good student, worked very hard, and was very bright. All semester he received the best grades in the class, indeed the best the professor had ever awarded in his 40 years of teaching. Other students struggled, most earning C's and with a few earning D's and even F's. The last exam covered alternatives to capitalism, but unfortunately, Ian did not correctly answer two questions on socialism. Receiving his test score, Ian went to the professor to discuss the same and told the professor that he did not understand socialism as well as he did the rest of the class materials. The professor said, "Ian, you still did the best in the class by far. I am impressed by your hard work, and you should not be concerned." The course soon ended and final grades were posted. Ian looked at the final grades and was shocked to note that everyone received a C, including himself and the students who had been failing. He immediately went back to the professor and complained. "It's not fair," he said, "I worked hard, they did not. I earned an A as I was by far the best student." The professor responded by explaining that what he had done was to average everyone's score so that no one would fail. "But that's not fair to me!" said Ian. "Perhaps not, said the professor, but now you understand socialism."

Thanks for the lesson.

But I am not arguing for equality in outcomes.

I am arguing for equality in opportunity.

Let me be blunt.

Does it not bother a single one of you that a person born to a poor family in this country has fewer opportunities than one born to a rich family?

A bright kid with poor parents will not have access to the same level of education or healthcare than an equally-bright kid born to rich parents purely due to their ability to pay. Nothing to do with the kid's hard work. Simply that he was unfortunate enough to be born to poor parents.

And all because the taxpayer refuses to pick up the slack.

That doesn't fit very well with your dream does it?

Ian, I don't know who in your family you may take after, but in mine, I am just like my dad. My dad always tried to save the world, he would give away his last dollar in his wallet and do anything to help anyone. Then at his funeral a man came up to me saying, " your dad was nothing but a drunk." Well, I had him physically taken out of there. But, my dad did drink especially, after my mom died. I always wondered what this man might had been like if he never served and saw the horrors of ww2. He suffered with PTSS. I grew up fast Ian. I would hold my dad at night when he woke up screaming in terror. This man had a huge heart and couldn't stand to see anyone suffer or go hungry. That day Ian, when my dad and I were alone for the last time, I tucked a dollar up my dad's sleeve so no one could ever say my dad died without a dollar to his name. Greedy heartless people didn't want to see why my dad didn't have a dollar to his name or why he drank. But, I knew. He had a heart of gold. And, wanted to fix the world. Sometimes, I read what you write and I know your heart is a big one, and made of gold, too. The only difference really between my dad and I is in, I know, I can't fix the world, but I can make the difference maybe, if lucky, in a person at a time or one reason at a time.

That was a very moving thing you wrote Cookie.

So I will stop there.

Probably a good place to stop, as it was likely dad was helping save the UK from the bosch.

As to averaging scores, as long as his leader is not Stalin, the bright guy gets ahead even without a test. Judge a man by his works.

As to the poor parents, unless they are disabled, there is a reason for them being poor, usually low ambition and intelligence.

We are a small, rural, poor county and yet there are 5 private preschools and 3 "headstart" type schools for kids that have monsters as parents. Free. The problem, is that without Stalin as the boss hog, you cannot make the parents take the kids to class. And their cars dont start, and now we have no jobs either.

Job search costs? Here is a good joke on us from the Feds: We have a program called "Mother lode job training", where a gaggle of admistrators and "teachers" sit around doing nothing because no one enrolls in the course - free. They teach them how to job shop and dress nice, and then if I hire them, I get 1/2 off their pay for several months as I train them. Its been 5 years since they had a soul to offer me. They get paid to do nothing.

Go figure. I trained several kids years ago, and they really did need that subsidy to be employable. Maybe they get enough now on foodstamps and welfare to not need to bother enrolling. Programs are in place, ambitions are not.

My best education was 20,000 miles on a jeep and motorcycle around the entire USA when I was 18. Slept on the dirt. Got my masters in that trip. Didnt cost the taxpayers a shilling.

ha ha ha ha ha, my first job was to teach in a headstart. Infact~~ it was there, that I started a paper on music therapy for autism. Just as a fluke, I noticed that when I played an old beat up record player, 45's, that those kids stopped rocking back & forth and, later noticing that I was able to make eye contact a heck of alot easier, too. Those papers are proudly still being used to teach others.

Ah, my friend, in each profession we will find good and bad who will or won't do the job as desired, but how unfair to judge the entire profession.

I know many great teachers in the public school system. I had the misfortune to be acquainted with a couple really bad plumbers but, I wouldn't judge the entire plumbing industry due to them.