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Thread: No clogs? Toto Drake Sanigloss?

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    DIY Junior Member matryoshka's Avatar
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    Default No clogs? Toto Drake Sanigloss?

    We're putting in new toilets in two bathrooms. I was going to put both stories here, but I think I'll split the posts as the questions are fairly different...

    In the downstairs (tiny) washroom I want to replace an American Standard that clogs *constantly*. Now, I do have to admit that I have a sweet little daughter that produces movements that probably are 1000g. or more. So I need something in there that is a flushing champion. Also, I have to wipe down the bowl after pretty much every BM with that thing, and I had been hoping for something I wouldn't have to do that with. I also wanted to go with elongated comfort/ADA height to replace the lower, round bowl.

    I had pretty much decided on the Toto Drake, based on some rave reviews. Even with the elongated bowl, it isn't much longer than the round bowl that's in there. But then some people said that it did clog for them, and when it did, it was harder to plunge. And then there were people saying they had to use the toilet brush for the same reason I do. I heard about the American Standard Champion, but I'm don't think it will fit - it's another 2" longer than the Drake, and about 4" longer than my current toilet. So is the Drake still my best bet? How hard is the thing to plunge? Is there another choice out there that will fit my space and flushing requirements?

    And if I do get the Drake, to get the Sanigloss or not? I do have trouble with hard water stains. The elongated bowl ADA height of course does not come in Sanigloss. Should I give up and go with the lower height with Sanigloss, or get the ADA height without??

    ETA: And how's that Sanigloss to clean? I know it's supposed to keep it cleaner in general, but I think I have to use a special brush? If I'm constantly having to scrub out skid marks, will the gentler brush work? And where do I have to buy those special brushes?
    Last edited by matryoshka; 07-02-2013 at 08:15 AM.

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    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Sounds like the Drake II, CST454CEFG, has everything you want: "ADA" (with the seat, called Universal Height or Comfort Height), the Double Cyclone flush for a little better bowl wash, Sanagloss to resist staining, etc. It's a good value if you want the Sanagloss and Comfort Height. Plus it will qualify for a Watersense rebate if your area offers them!

    It also has a great flush, moving a lot of material. I don't think the Totos are any harder to plunge than any other toilet. Maybe it's that it takes so much to clog them, that you have more to plunge out if you do?

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    All modern toilets plunge the same.
    Brand doesn't matter.

    Some old bowls from the 70's were washdown, not siphon jet.

    The Drake II like mentioned above comes with Sanagloss and a tall bowl. Very popular with my customers.
    Some of the new bowls can be cleared by pouring a bucket of water into the bowl. It's that easy.

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    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Oh, and two other things.

    First, Sanagloss doesn't have that much in the way of restrictions on how to clean it -- basically avoid harsh chemicals, avoid gritty cleaners like Comet, and use a soft plastic-bristle brush like most people use anyway.

    Here are the actual, official Sanagloss cleaning instructions from Toto: http://www.totousa.com/LinkClick.asp...6A%3d&tabid=83

    See...no big deal.

    Second, the reason we generally avoid the Champion is that American Standard in our opinion has many more quality-control issues than does Toto, so your chance of getting a defective casting is higher, it uses some non-standard parts that are more-challenging to fix or replace than just putting in a new flapper, for example, it's balkier, and it doesn't flush any better than the Toto.

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    DIY Junior Member matryoshka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjcandee View Post
    Oh, and two other things.

    First, Sanagloss doesn't have that much in the way of restrictions on how to clean it -- basically avoid harsh chemicals, avoid gritty cleaners like Comet, and use a soft plastic-bristle brush like most people use anyway.

    Here are the actual, official Sanagloss cleaning instructions from Toto: http://www.totousa.com/LinkClick.asp...6A%3d&tabid=83

    See...no big deal.
    Okay, so I can still use the regular plastic toilet brush? Well, that's a relief. Does it really reduce hard-water stains? Or do they still build up and then I can't use anything gritty to get rid of them (honestly, though, even the gritty stuff barely touches the hard water stains on the current toilet... I've kind of given up and just brush it for grime and live with the staining...)

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    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    In my view, the review you read is totally, competely wrong. In any constellation of reviews, there are going to be outliers, because that's the way the world works. SOMEBODY is going to be dissatisfied. What I can tell you is that the description of how the toilet works is inaccurate. What he claims that the "toto rep" (who?!) "confirmed" is wrong, or he misunderstood it.

    I have a double-cyclone. You can see on this video (made by someone else) how it works. No, it doesn't use a lot of water. That's the point. What it does do is use the water effectively. It does indeed have a siphon jet at the bottom that gets the waste out, and it swirls the water around the bowl better than the ones with the rim holes. Given that the whole world is moving to 1.28gpf, from 3.5 or more several years ago, you invariably won't have the same bowl wash -- the trick is to have the best bowl wash with what you can use. Gone, obviously, are the days when you drop the "material" into a swimming pool of water, which contains all of it, and then wash the bowl with another swimming pool of water.



    The funny thing is that the seemingly-dinky flush of the double-cyclone actually gets out more material and clogs less often than the 5-gallon monster it replaced. Because by good design it uses the water effectively.

    I saw on another site a review that actually made me pretty misty. It was from a retired guy who had always hated the toilet in his house but didn't want to spend the money to replace it. His wife asked him what he wanted for his birthday and she was surprised when he told her a Toto toilet. She bought him this toilet. He raves about it, says it's one of the best gifts he has ever received and how much he loves his wife for buying it for him. Amazing.

    Good luck!!
    Last edited by wjcandee; 07-02-2013 at 12:51 PM.

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    If you are in the 1% with medical issues, large unflushable waste, sometimes because of being on medication, then you may need a 3" trapway like the Caroma, or something with a Sloan Flushmate. Kohler Highline with pressure assist.

    If what you are flushing is normal, MaP test with 3/4" by 4" media, then there are plenty of bowls that will work for you, including the Kohler and American Standard products.
    With hard water you will have to stay on top of it. I use a liquid cleaner every so often in the bowl and a nylon bristol brush.
    Sanagloss is a nice smooth finish that helps with that.

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    DIY Junior Member matryoshka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    All modern toilets plunge the same.
    The Drake II like mentioned above comes with Sanagloss and a tall bowl. Very popular with my customers.
    I was looking at the Drake II. I don't like the style quite as much, but my bigger concern is the different flushing system. I'm just not convinced that the "double cyclone" will flush down what I need it to. (I'm really not kidding about the 1000g thing). Isn't the Double Cyclone just plain old gravity with a different entryway for the water? No siphon? I found this review of a Double Cyclone Toto that leaves me a bit cold:

    The "double cyclone" technology is not exactly living up to its billing, either. The entire flush basically consists of a gentle swirl of water around the bowl with a lazy gurgle at the bottom. There is absolutely no force behind it at all and anything that gets stuck to the bowl (waste getting stuck to the bowl happens far more with this toilet than any other I've used - not sure why) is not rinsed away, even after multiple flushings. Solid waste requires two flushings EVERY time - the first gets most of it, the second to get all the floating little pieces that are always left behind (sorry to be gross). You then must use a toilet brush to clean what is still stuck to the bowl EVERY time you introduce solid waste. I did not have to do this with my builder-grade toilet - it usually needed two flushings, but took care of everything with the second flush 90% of the time. The Toto rep confirmed that the "double cyclone" is just water entering the bowl out of two sideways holes rather than several under the rim so that the water simply falls into the bowl in a circle instead of straight down. He told me "it's not like there is any extra water pressure or anything".
    I can't see how that will work for what my toilet has to deal with...

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