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Thread: No drain trap is ok?

  1. #16
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    I would agree about calling SewerRatz. He would be honest with you, even if just to tell you what needs to be fixed.

    Like you, I wished that Terry or HJ or Jimbo or MacPlumb or one of the other expert plumbers on here lived in my area. MacPlumb is a friend of SewerRatz, and I have seen other people be happy when they contacted him. MacPlumb recommended someone to me in my area, and I couldn't believe how great the guy was: fixed the problem nobody else could fix and charged a fair price.

    So when you have a chance to use one of the real experts in our forum like SewerRatz, you are very lucky. I would call him, and mention that someone on TerryLove.com told you to call him. I am sure he can help.

  2. #17
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy927 View Post
    I mean I can ask you to come to take a look my bathroom. I do not know any trusted pluming guy here yet. We are new here.
    HJ was being funny. When he says, "Why? What did I ever do to you?", he means, in a funny way, that he would not want to move back to Chicago. He lived there and did not like the cold. So he moved to Michigan, which didn't make it less cold, so then he moved to Arizona, where it is almost always warm.

    I understand what he means. I am from New York, where it does get cold. When I went to school in Chicago for 3 years, I thought it would be similar to New York. I was very, very wrong. I was so frozen after 3 years that I moved to Texas rather than back to New York. It was almost 10 years before I finally warmed up enough to move back to New York.

    But almost everyone I know who grew up in Chicago and around there loves it and can't imagine living anywhere else.

  3. #18
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy927 View Post
    Is this common to share ptrap?
    No. Also, you want the P-trap to be as close as possible to the fixture preferably with no elbows. The section of pipe between the fixture and P-trap can build up soap residue that then harbors bacteria which produces an odor. Every now and then, I pop the drain cover in my shower and scrub out the section of pipe with a long brush when I start noticing a smell.

  4. #19
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    The only place you can share a trap is in a double sink, and even then, you may not be able to depending on where you live. NEVER on separate, diverse fixtures like a shower and a sink or something else. With no trap, you have an open path for sewer gasses, bugs, rats, who knows what. It's unsafe, unsanitary, and against code.

    There's a reason why we have plumbing codes, permits, and inspections in this country...to avoid shoddy work like this and keep people healthy. It's pretty obvious there was no permit pulled for this, or the inspector got paid off, both illegal. A nice remodel is more than looking nice - it must work properly and keep you safe.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  5. #20
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    quote; Is it okay if they are not certified plumber? Can they still do business? I thought these workers would have some licence.

    In this area, there are situations where the plumbers do not have to be licensed, but for the work you had done, it ALWAYS requires a license. Legally, if he is supposed to have a license and does not, you usually do not have to pay him for the work done, because it was done illegally.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

  6. #21
    DIY Junior Member Joy927's Avatar
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    I am still waiting for their response. Hope they can fix this. If not, I will contact with the guy you recommended. Do you know he can do tile too? We have to break the floor tile to fix the drain.

  7. #22
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy927 View Post
    I am still waiting for their response. Hope they can fix this. If not, I will contact with the guy you recommended. Do you know he can do tile too? We have to break the floor tile to fix the drain.
    To ensure that the waterproofing is intact, you'll likely need to tear out most if not all of the shower pan to install a trap. To do that properly, you have to go up the walls at least 6" or so as well. The shower pan liner needs to go up at least a couple of inches above the top of the curb, which is why you'd need to tear out part of the walls, which is likely to include the curb. You may be able to take out less, but then you'd be making extra seams. Based on how they did the current install, they may have not done a proper job with the liner, so it may be better to tear the curb out as well. This is not an easy fix. It would have been an easy thing done right from the beginning. Before the new tile and setting bed is installed, it should have a flood test to check for leaks.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  8. #23
    DIY Junior Member Joy927's Avatar
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    Default Thank you

    They told me that they will brake four floor tiles to install ptrap. I do not think they put liner underneath. I saw they put cements and tiles only. I am getting tired of dealing with them. How can I know if they put ptrap in the tub drain....

  9. #24
    DIY Junior Member Joy927's Avatar
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    Thank you so much for lots of help. I would like to get some help. Is anything aware of when they install ptrap in the shower drain? Is any rule such as ptrap length or degree.... I would appreciate. Thank you so much.

  10. #25
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy927 View Post
    They told me that they will brake four floor tiles to install ptrap. I do not think they put liner underneath. I saw they put cements and tiles only. I am getting tired of dealing with them. How can I know if they put ptrap in the tub drain....
    A shower pan MUST be waterproof to pass inspection and for successful, long-term reliability of your entire house...this requires some waterproof layer and cement and tile are NOT what waterproofs a shower, they are only the decorative, wear layer. It would be nearly imposible to tear out the floor of a shower around the drain without destroying the liner, if it exists (and it MUST).

    If there's no liner, it is not a shower that would pass code anywhere. Did the installer pull a building permit for this? Are they licensed? Was it inspected? Well, I guess that last question is moot, no inspector would pass an install without a trap or a liner.

    There's a reason why a building permit is required and the associated inspection. Yes, it can cost a bit (not necessarily a lot), but it protects you in the long run. If these people do not have a plumbing license, it is my understanding that legally, you don't have to pay them. It could get ugly, but you'd win. Best to consult a lawyer.

    Personally, from what I've heard (and I'm not there), the entire thing was not built to any accepted standards. IF that is true, you'd win in court, if it got that far. Looking pretty on the outside is only one part of the install...the structure must be correct for it to function.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  11. #26
    DIY Junior Member Joy927's Avatar
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    They said there are actually ptrap somewhere, but they are not working properly. They will anyway fix these.

    I already paid the full amount $9000.

    Can I still get an inspection before they fix? How can I find the inspector? Thank you so much for your help.

  12. #27
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    An inspection usually comes in stages...the rough-in to verify the drain and supply lines are installed properly, then often a flood test, to verify that the shower pan is installed properly, and sometimes a third after everything is finished (not all places do this one). To get a proper inspection starts with pulling a building permit, and if done now, the whole thing might have to be torn out since the rough-in isn't visible to be checked.

    See what one of the pros has to say that deals with this, but a true pro would have taken the time to pull a permit, get the inspections, and do it right the first time to prevent this from happening in the first place. Because the work was started without a permit, there could be a fine as well...the building permit people are part of city hall, but exactly where their offices are, you'd have to check.

    A trap cannot be shared with other fixtures in the bathroom. And, to prevent accumulations of soap scum, hair, skin flakes, and who knows what in a long trap arm (the pipe going to the trap), it is best to have the trap immediately below the drain opening in the shower which keeps that trap arm short. That vertical pipe self cleans better than one turning and going a distance horizontally, too.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  13. #28
    DIY Junior Member classic140's Avatar
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    I share your pain Joy927. The same thing has happened to me! My out-of-pocket costs is only about $500 for a 1-piece shower install on the 2nd floor (without a ptrap).
    The pro's on this forum have provided a straight answer that I really appreciate!!
    You guys are the best.... now I have the knowledge & confidence to confront my contractor.

    Thank you, TerryLove forum!
    A frustrated homeowner in SW Ark.

  14. #29
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Do they need a license for what they did? Yes. Can the do the work without a license. Yes, assuming they do not get caught. Call the building department and have an inspector check whether it was done properly and if they are licensed to do it.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

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