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Thread: Is there a Made in USA toilet as good as a Toto?

  1. #16
    Brand New Plumber GoKohlerGo's Avatar
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    To get a toilet as good as toto that is made in the USA, buy the Kohler Cimarron. I have one and love it.

  2. #17

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    God bless you. I got to be honest, I got one of those, and I want to drop kick it out the bath window. I am sure, Kohler makes good products as well, as Toto, but, surely, you jest about the Cimarron. I got it working pretty good now, after 7 years of tweaking it. Everyone asks me what I want for Xmas, and everyone thinks I am kidding, when I say, " a new toilet."

  3. #18
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoKohlerGo View Post
    To get a toilet as good as toto that is made in the USA, buy the Kohler Cimarron. I have one and love it.
    Pretty sure that Cimarron is not made in the USA.

  4. #19

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    I don't know who made that toilet, but, it requires a whole lot of patience. lol. I want to buy the toilet that Ed Bundy uses on the ole' show, Married with Children, now, he never had a problem.

  5. #20
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    American standard 3 - now MADE IN THE USA - have a click and be amazed!

    http://www.americanstandard-us.com/p...s/made-in-usa/

    As I mentioned, with the cost of natural gas, You'll see more patriots take a profit at home, and have workers with money enough to BUY american. As Ian said many times, "thats the best little toilet on earth. Flush an elephant turd, mate."

    As to the Cimarron, I found a story online where the union refused a thousand on a huge job, because they were made in china or mexico, and next week received fresh american made ones. So I guess they send the imports to the home stores, and save the us ones for the buy american act.

    People that care about getting America back on its feet, will live with a chinese plunger next to their US Mansfield. Or go ahead and buy the US Toto, just remember the profits leave the country.

    http://www.mansfieldplumbing.com/Why...de-In-USA.aspx

    And here are 10 pages of US made mansfield products, so yes, you have choices.

    http://www.mansfieldplumbing.com/Pro...A.aspx?page=10

    Here is the best reason to seek US made products - so your kid does not end up at MCburgers or the dollar depression store:

    Name:  Rish and the flag.jpg
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    Last edited by ballvalve; 08-15-2012 at 11:49 AM.

  6. #21
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    I pay as much for a TOTO Drake at the wholesale level as I do for a Cadet 3.
    Since I work for a living selling and installing plumbing products, it's nice if that product is trouble free. My time is worth something. Working with the TOTO line is a no brainer if I want to do the job once. My return rates on TOTO have been less then 1%
    It's been much higher for American Standard product that I'm selling and installing.
    And nobody pays you for lost time.

    I see he likes flags a lot too. My family has been in the country long before it was a country.
    I can date it back to 1620. That's 392 years. But I don't need to post flags to let people know I'm a nice person. I have friends from all over. My family is very international too, and so are my customers. I live in the Seattle area, a very nice place to be. I'm kind of partial to British Columbia too. Nice people everywhere it seems.
    Last edited by Terry; 11-04-2012 at 01:56 PM.

  7. #22
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Even if corporate profits end up overseas, the vast majority of the money created by running a factory in any country is the labor, medical, services, and materials it purchases or provides to the community. All of that money stays local, and when you consider the typical multiplication factor of all those employed people spending their salaries, it is MUCH more than the relatively insignificant profits that may leave. And, if you happen to own any stock in that company, some of that profit also stays here. Not counting the taxes they pay to local economy and the feds. People that bash foreign owners are welcomed to startup their own, competing endeavor.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  8. #23
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    Even if corporate profits end up overseas, the vast majority of the money created by running a factory in any country is the labor, medical, services, and materials it purchases or provides to the community. All of that money stays local, and when you consider the typical multiplication factor of all those employed people spending their salaries, it is MUCH more than the relatively insignificant profits that may leave. And, if you happen to own any stock in that company, some of that profit also stays here. Not counting the taxes they pay to local economy and the feds. People that bash foreign owners are welcomed to startup their own, competing endeavor.
    You know, there needs to be a bit of a dose of reality in this thread.

    I read that piece that Ballvalve posted about American Standard "Made in USA" Chinaware. Holy crap! All I can say is that it makes me dislike the company even more. First, obviously the only reason that they moved some of this manufacturing back was to be able to continue to have their chinaware used in public works projects funded with Stimulus Package money. What are they making here? Well, certain versions of the Cadet for government buildings, and a flushometer toilet bowl suitable for public restrooms, and a few sinks the same. Everything else? Made elsewhere. Tank hardware? Sure looks like a Made in Mexico Fluidmaster on that Cadet. So for them to wave the flag like that just makes me gag.

    It's hard to hear about a "global economy" when one sees factories close and jobs move. Nevertheless, it doesn't help us, in my view to become jingoistic. For example, to worry about "profits going elsewhere" misses one point that is probably relevant to the discussion. Those profits that "go elsewhere" are operating profits. Those profits, after being taxed here, go back to pay back the capital investment that the owner made here in the first place. So, when the Columbians bought Mansfield, they paid Americans tens of millions of dollars that otherwise would be sitting in Columbia. In other words, they injected capital into this country. The old Mansfield owners could then spend and invest that money. Meanwhile, the profits that the Columbians get are being used to pay off whatever money they had to borrow to buy Mansfield. When Toto came to the US, they put tens of millions of dollars into building an infrastructure here, building things, renting space, hiring people, before they ever begun to get money back from their operations. What operating profit they make here gets taxed by our government before some of it goes to Japan to pay off the investment that they made here in the first place and continue to make. Bottom line: yeah, "profits" go out when you buy a Toto, but a lot of money came IN to the US from them before they could even start operating.

    To me, that something is made here or made by a local company is icing on the cake; I'll pay a little more for it, but I'm not going to buy something that's grossly-overpriced or not a good product just because some marketing-type slaps a flag-sticker on it. So I am delighted to buy a Korky flapper, for example, because it's a good product, priced right, and made here. Now that's a winner!
    Last edited by wjcandee; 08-15-2012 at 05:32 PM.

  9. #24

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    An outhouse is looking better and better, lol.

    There is something I think most people do not understand. There is at least one common denominator with all countries. All. My husband traveled for work, really extensively, in & out of our country. I was luckily enough to be able to travel with him alot of the time to places most people won't get a chance to ever see. We found one thing that all countries had in common. They preferred that their own countrymen or tourists, buy their own countries products over another's. I swear it was this way, no matter what country or how far-reaching it was from the US. If they produced a product, no matter what the product was, they wanted to sell that one, over something, the exact thing, produced elsewhere.

    All countries, no matter the country, want to help their own, we are no different, they are no different, this is something that people have in common. Every country flies their flag, takes pride in their country, their people, and, they should; and, the US is the same. That is all. All people, no matter where, no matter how far, have this in common, it is not wrong, it is simply, human nature... Your country is home, it is where you hang your hat, raise your kids, and all people of all nations, basically, want the same, a good life, a better one for their families and their kids.

    All countries, all people are basically the same in what they want, and if you take a closer look at things, you will see that.
    Last edited by Cookie; 08-15-2012 at 08:19 PM.

  10. #25
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    Ballvalve; I don't know what his deal is. He seems to dislike plumbers, and yet he is on here harassing plumbers for entertainment. If he knew anything about plumbing, he would be a plumber. Not a hater of plumbers. I love how you have all these opinions based on your imagination.

    I see he likes flags a lot too. My family has been in the country long before it was a country.
    I can date it back to 1620. That's 392 years. But I don't need to post flags to let people know I'm a nice person. I have friends from all over. My family is very international too, and so are my customers. I live in the Seattle area, a very nice place to be. I'm kind of partial to British Columbia too. Nice people everywhere it seems.
    Thanks for keeping the post up. I don't hate but a few persons on earth, -not because of color or race- and if I said why, you'd agree. we were taught to judge each person individually, black, yellow, Japanese, Mexican. Perhaps I just have the misfortune of living in a area with poor plumbers - I am sure you could make a long list of them in your area too. My plumbing started at about age 7, steamfitting at our tailor and cleaning plant. could turn a mean thread by hand by age 10. Hope the asbestos doesn't get me.

    Had a goofy machinist old uncle imported from Slovakia - taught me to make hacksaws, run a mill and metal shaper....and could fix ANYTHING. Never smiled once in his life, mean as a mule with a screw in his butt, was only married for 2 weeks, but hid marbles and pennies in a pile of dirt for me- told me it was from an old bank. Took me many years to figure out his game.

    I am sure you and most of the gang here are good at your craft, but you guys gravitate to the big cities, the broken down ones apparently come out in the mountains to hide. I gave up and keep a van filled with several thousands of dollars of parts. Have a grunt that with a bit of coaching can do anything for 1/4 of the cost of the one maybe good guy around. As I said in earlier posts, if I had a cushy govt. job at 50 bucks an hour, and one house, I'd be happy to hire a plumber. But I've got pipe and pumps like bed bugs in a 20$ motel.

    Frankly, I think America a bit nuts with flags. After 911, All the phone co trucks flew about 8 on them and it started to get me a bit ill. My father was a drill seargeant for 25 years after the big war, and he would'nt put a flag up either. He knew that patriotism, or defense of ones country comes in ACTIONS, not displays. You don't wear it on your sleeve. And I still have a living brother because he was smart enough to make him do 2 years in electronics college before he enlisted. Thought Vietnam was a deranged mistake.

    So my thing is that one of our best actions we can take to keep this country working is to try as best we can to buy something made here, and let the morons in washington know we care.... It helps us today, and it saves us when the next war starts. So American standard has its profit motives, but no matter, its a great start. After all of Terrys talk, I even bought a Toto. Nice flush, but maybe the AS 3 will improve now that its home.

    I thought that big flag was rather nice, and that was up just for a armed forces day - probably the only city left that celebrates it. Hawthorne, Nevada. Look it up- i would designate it as one of the most unique towns in America. Absolute middle of desert nowhere, with a 50x25 mile long desert lake, and enough bunkers filled with bombs to keep us all safe after the next and bigger 911.

    I do have a problem with my 6 year old - watches old Polish TV versions of "Combat" - the Polish and Russians fighting the Germans. Now all he does is shoot Germans in the yard. Finally got him to use the word 'Nazi' instead.

    How about we put the U.S. Toto in the Master, the Kohler in the guest bath, and the Mansfield in the basement?
    Last edited by ballvalve; 08-16-2012 at 01:15 PM.

  11. #26

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    Personally, I like that picture of your son and the big flag. I love seeing them flying. I like how they look. I keep a little one outside my door with my flowers. I can't or could never get tired of looking at our flag. I think, all nations are like that, everyone takes pride and should in their homeland. I love the USA. I think, we do alot to help other nations and people and that makes me proud.

  12. #27
    DIY Junior Member BMartin9000's Avatar
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    I personally love Toto and have never had an issue with them. My customers have never complained, so why not just use them?

  13. #28
    DIY Senior Member JerryR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickelboy View Post
    I just can't do it. I know some of you will say some parts are made in the USA, but Toto is still a foreign company. I'm going with the Mansfield Summit 3. Thanks for all comments, advice and especially a great website.
    Just last week i had a long conversation with a friend in Michigan. He had a plastics manufacturing business that supplied parts mainly for US auto makers. A few years ago his business dropped off to nothing as US auto companies went overseas for plastic stuff. He lost over a million dollars when he sold his business.

    Today he drives a Honda Accord because it's made in US and has 85% US parts. He was going to buy a Chevy but it was only 67% US parts. The Accord now has 250,000 miles on it.

    I take an elderly friend to lunch twice a week. Every time he gets into my Lexus he tells me that they bombed Pearl Harbor. He drives a Volvo. Guess where the ball bearings were manufactured for the German Aircraft during WW2?

    My Toto drake was manufactured 1/2 in US and 1/2 in Vietnam. I spent 12 long months in vietnam in 1968.

    I retired from a high tech US fortune 500 company. By the time I left NONE of the manufacturing was done in the US.

    We are a global economy.
    JR

  14. #29
    General Engineering Contractor ballvalve's Avatar
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    Guess where the ball bearings were manufactured for the German Aircraft during WW2?
    Answer: They were made in Schweinfurt, Germany where thousands of Americans lost their legs or lives trying to bomb the plants. I have been there. Incredibly, my Army brother lived there during the Vietnam war because of his tech degree, aiming Hawk missiles at the soon to visit Russians. What is breath-taking is how these bright and meticulous people could have built human death factories - on the surface, its the most civilized country on earth. Stop in at Auswitzch in the winter if you want to come home and kiss the ground. My wife acted in the movie Schindlers list, and nearly had a breakdown.

    Anyway.... I suppose BEFORE the war, the Germans imported bearings from wherever they could get them. They also Mfg'd. some in Czechoslovakia in underground plants.

    I met a OLD woman near a village in Kiev, Ukraine. She was a slave worker for the Nazi's - near the wars end, she hid a downed American pilot in the forest and fed him daily. When the war ended he gave her his watch and rings and all his money, and a jacket, then she walked the 1000 miles or so home. I was the first American she saw since him and I never had so many kisses in my life. She had a fine toilet just outside the door that required no flush valve or water.

    I think our main problem in America is the folks that survived the depression are long dead, and no American ever walked a few thousand miles in the winter, eating rotten potatoes and frozen turnips, with all the towns still smouldering brick piles.

    Spa's, 60" tv's, Bidets, are softening us up.

    As to plastic MFG'g - I would NOT worry. Its the third largest industry in the US and employs 900 thousand people. Now with our 'free' natural gas, you'll see even more. I want to see a plastic TOILET - just imagine the advantages..... And the perfectly formed and smooth trapways you could create.

    http://www.plasticsindustry.org/abou...temNumber=1008
    Last edited by ballvalve; 08-17-2012 at 01:15 PM.

  15. #30
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    Delta made a one-piece plastic toilet in the 70's. The shop I worked for had a red one on display. It was feather light. We never installed it, and I don't think we sold any either. It felt kind of flimsy.
    I've never felt good about plastic chairs either. There are a few more expensive and more solid ones out there. One thing I like when sitting, is something that doesn't move around underneath me. Unless it was made to be a rocker.

    What is breath-taking is how these bright and meticulous people could have built human death factories - on the surface, its the most civilized country on earth.
    That has surprised me too. Frankly I'm stunned by it. It was never logical. If you leave politics out of it, we would be the best of friends.
    Last edited by Terry; 09-05-2013 at 02:50 PM.

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