Natural gas regulator question

I am newbie when it comes to plumbing and pretty much deathly afraid of natural gas plumbing issues. That being said, I think my problem is simple but if the answer is: "Hire a professional", I will understand.

I have 5 natural gas appliances feeding off one main regulator: furnace, hot water heater, fireplace, clothes dryer, cooktop. Recently, there was some work done on our gas fireplace and the repair guy went downstairs and turned down the pressure on the main regulator (I think since I did not witness it but heard him mention it). Anyway, ever since that time, our gas cooktop with 5 burners seems to take awhile before it ignites.

More specifically, once one burner is lit and it burns for awhile, the other burners fire right up. Turning them off and immediately on again results in the same thing, they fire right up. But let them sit for awhile or the next day and its back to the same thing, it takes forever to get the damn things lit!

So it seems like a pressure thing. Once there is gas in the lines to the cooktop, all burners will ignite almost immediately. I've checked the regulator at the cooktop but there are no adjustments. It appears the only place to adjust would be at the main regulator. So I guess my question is: Would turning up the pressure on the regulator solve this problem? And if so, how? There's an allen type screw on the top of the regulator ... Just loosen?

Any opinions greatly appreciated! I can supply pictures of the regulator(s) in question if needed.

Call that repair guy back and have him correct the problem. He created it, if everything was working fine before.
Mike

regulator

In most areas that regulator belongs to the gas utility, and it is both dangerous and illegal to tamper with its settings.

Thanks for the replies. Both good suggestions. I think I will call the repair guy back ... and maybe inquire about whether it's legal or not to tamper with the regulator.

Thanks again!

regulator

One reason it is illegal is that if you were to readjust it higher and the house blew up, whoever made the adjustment would be liable for any damages.

No, No ,no

don't have this person back! he has already proven his incompetence

call the gas co. in to correct the situation

let them talk to him

The regulator at the gas service entrance would rarely if ever need to be adjusted. If it is not allowing enough gas through, it could be defective and should be replaced by the gas utility co. If your gas load is larger than your piping system will support, tampering with the pressure to attempt to get all the appliances to work is extremely dangerous. Get the gas company out right away to look at this situation.

A picture is worth a thousand words (see attached).

The regulator I'm talking about is inside the house near the furnace with the main line coming from the meter on the outside, going to this regulator and then from there, going to all the various gas appliances.

Does that make it clearer now? Thanks so far for all the opinions!

Those maxitrols have a rather nasty habit of failing to the high side if used with intermittent ignition appliances. Generally, a failed maxitrol will equalize pressure from high to low in these situations.

I'm not sure if you have any standing pilot appliances, most fireplaces are, as are natural draft water heaters. Most cooktops are spark to pilot, dryers are hot surface, and any newer furnace made in the last 15 years would most likely be intermittent ignition.

What may very well be happening is that over a period of time with no gas flow, pressure will build up in the low pressure gas lines. When you start your cooktop, gas may be travelling too fast past the ignitor to catch flame. Perhaps this is why the fireplace tech adjusted the maxitrol to lower the pressure.

From your attatched picture, I'd be willing to put money on the fact that the outlet (low pressure) piping leaving the maxitrol and the hokey looking manifold isn't sized to the demand of your system. Many techs will arbitrarily adjust the maxitrol to meet demand when units are in operation, but then find high static pressure (when no gas is being consumed). Almost all the time, the adjustment higher is to compensate for friction loss in the undersized manifold. Something to think about.

Your gas supplier will probably have no interest beyond their regulator outside at the meter.

Unless you know what you're doing and have the necessary equipment to properly diagnose and repair your problem, call a licenced plumbing or heating contractor to properly address your concern.

gas

That is some handyman's idea of an "ideal" gas system. There is nothing correct about it. The gas company's regulator is set for the optimum appliance pressure and the appliance regulator is just there in case something goes awry. It cannot increase the system's pressure, but can only decrease it and/or diminish the volume available. They are only intended for the single appliance, not to feed a manifold like this. Get a good plumber, or even a not so good one because even he could correct this kludge.

HJ, that's a pounds to inches regulator. The line coming in (right side of picture) is 2# gas. The regulator steps it down to 6" wc.

For the record, I am NOT the 'handyman' that 'kludged' this setup together! 2 years ago, we did a major remodel. Prior to that, the setup was similar but it was only feeding: 1) furnace, 2) hot water heater, and 3) gas dryer. Since the remodel, two appliances were added: 4) gas cooktop and 5) gas fireplace. The furnace and hot water heater were replaced with new ones during the remodel. The 'kludge' was done by a licensed plumber/HVAC contractor so I can only assume it was done to code and done correctly. The gas fireplace was recently converted to a standing pilot to fix a recall issue.

If you guys say it's not done correctly, then I need to get a good, licensed plumber/HVAC contractor in here to fix it.

Thanks a bunch for all the good info. It's a little over my head so an explanation in 'laymens terms' would be helpful. Like what is the manifold in this setup? What is wc?

The 'manifold' is the arrangement of tees serving each appliance.

W.C. stands for water closet; it also stands for water column, which is unit of pressure or vacuum expressed in inches.

Your installation is actually common. Many installers will pipe the 2# gas to the area of the furnace, being that is generally the largest load. Then the maxitrol is installed and tees are installed on its outlet to serve the appliances.

Many times an arrangement such as your is permissable, even though the finer points of correctly sizing the manifold are not taken into account. Even though the maxitrol is taped with 1/2" threads, the first few tees of the manifold may need to be 3/4" or 1", depending on connected load and length of piping to the appliance. When this is not done, the a working maxitrol will supply the pressure it's set for at it's outlet, but the pressure at the appliance will be too low, because of the restriction in the manifold. Then someone will get the bright idea of cranking up the pressure to the maxitrol to supply the correct pressure at the appliance (trying to overcome the restriction), sure he can get the required pressure when the unit is operating, but when the unit shuts off, the gas pressure will be higher, because the maxitrol has been set too high.

Now, the maxitrols are pretty resillient and can put up with this, for a while. Eventually they'll get sloppy. This is when they begin to equalize, slowly leaking the higher pressure into the lower. Properly sized piping gas piping downstream of the maxitrol will help to alleviate failures.

All that being said, the maxitrols don't have an extremely long service life, probably 10 years. They are relatively cheap, +/- $50 depending on markup.

Attached is a little sketch. I haven't sized it, being I'm using some typical ratings for appliances and I don't know total length of piping to each appliance. But it does show the loading and why sizing is important.

regulator

If it is a pounds to inches one, then it may be a Wardflex, or similar, for corrugated tubing. Here, any pounds to inches regulator has to be vented to the exterior. We do not see enough in this picture to determine what is ahead of the regulator.