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Thread: Cycle Stop Valve = Lots of air?

  1. #16
    DIY Member jimmym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedbump
    The danger of the check valve is; if you have a leak in the droppipe and/or the pipe from the well to the house. Since the check valve removes all the pressure from those lines, they are now a vacuum line which can pull contamination into the lines along with "AIR" which will be pumped into the house next time the pump comes on.

    Don't worry about water leaking out of the pipe under pressure without the check valve. Nothing is going to get into the pipes this way, just out.

    When you remove the check valve, I'm sure you will see that you have a leak/s somewhere on the pump side of the removed check valve.

    bob...
    I'll give it a shot. I did replace the check when I did the CSV. Perhaps the old check was leaking back and keeping the pipe pressurized. The new check is working properly and is allowing the pipe to draw a vacuum. Hmmmmm.
    Only tests will tell.

  2. #17
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    The fact that you don't see air after a while of running steady rules out the CSV causing the air.

    bob...

  3. #18
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    jim, I must have misunderstood this: "I closed the drain, started the pump, and opened the house valve. I then opened every faucet in the house for about 10 minutes, until no more air came out of the faucets (pump holds 52 PSI with everything open). I shut them all off and things were pretty quiet for a while. Then the air started again. Blowing air out of the faucets with accompanying spitting water.". What do you mean there if not that you ran water for 10 minutes at 52 psi and then the air was spitting out the faucets again? Or should I ask how you expect the air to get out of the lines if the water wasn't running for those ten minutes, to flush it out of them...

    It certainly sounds like a dry well to me...

    Gary
    Quality Water Associates

  4. #19
    DIY Member jimmym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser

    It certainly sounds like a dry well to me...

    Gary
    Quality Water Associates
    Ahhh, yeah. Sorry. I didn't communicate clearly enough.
    What I meant was that after draining and running everything for about 10 minutes with no signs of air, I shut off the faucets thinking all was well. Then, after normal use over the course of a day, the air problem slowly came back. It was the worst during my morning shower the next day.

    What you understood definitely sounds like a dry well. You're right.

  5. #20
    DIY Member jimmym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedbump
    The fact that you don't see air after a while of running steady rules out the CSV causing the air.

    bob...
    The CSV works fine while flow is up. Like during a shower. But I was thinking that after water use ends, and the valve throttles down to allow only 1 GPM, it cavitates. Since all the water is going into the tank at that point. all the air would be too.
    I'm going to lay off the "CSV is causing air" rant until I try what you suggested. Removing the check.

  6. #21
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    Shutting of the water for a while is what gives the leak time to run the water back and let the air in.

    That's what it sounds like to me. When it's running steady, all pipes are under pressure and no way for the air to enter them.

    bob...

  7. #22
    DIY Member jimmym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedbump
    Shutting of the water for a while is what gives the leak time to run the water back and let the air in.

    That's what it sounds like to me. When it's running steady, all pipes are under pressure and no way for the air to enter them.

    bob...
    Sounds right. Now I just want to leave work early to test things out. This whole working to get paid is a real cramp in my style.

  8. #23
    DIY Member jimmym's Avatar
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    Default Test results

    OK, here it is.
    I removed the check and left the CSV in place.
    I ran and flushed everything for a while until I was satisfied that there was no more air in the pipes.
    I closed the house valve and shut off the breaker. Tank was at 68 PSI.
    By morning there was zero pressure in the tank.
    Today I did the same and checked the pressure at 30 minutes and 1 hour.
    At 1 hour, the pressure was down to 56 PSI. The pump starts at ~55.
    So here it is. I have a leak that drops a Flex-con WS120 tank from 68 to 56 PSI in 1 hour.
    The pump is actually ~60 feet down the well.
    Here's a possible fix to reduce pump cycling.
    Reinstall the check with a T before and after it.
    Across the T, install a small check with a regulator to allow only 3-5 PSI from the tank to the pump while the pump is off and things are leaking. This will reduce the leakage flow rate but not restrict normal operation. The pump line will stay prssureized to avoid air getting in but the pressure will be greatly reduced when off.
    Thoughts?
    Also, My wife and I agree that something will have to be done about the pump. At 60' down, can I change it myself?

  9. #24
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    Yes you can change it yourself. It's going to be heavy and an extra pair of hands is highly recommended. Something to clamp the pipe in place while your unscrewing joints, getting tired or just needing a break is recommended also.

    Your idea with the check valve and the tees etc. is not a good one. Leave the check valve out like you have it now. If the air quit, your good for a while unless the leak gets worse and starts running the pump a lot more. If it comes on every couple of hours, no big deal. Every couple of minutes, this is a big deal.

    bob...

  10. #25
    DIY Member jimmym's Avatar
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    OK. Thanks, Bob. I'll just leave it as is, and enjoy my superb water pressure. When things get worse or it fails, I'll fix it then. Perhaps a variable speed pump this time. certainly one with more ooomph. I'd like it to maintain pressure with more things running.
    Thanks, again.

  11. #26
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    Believe it or not, the CSV valve will do as good a job as a Constant pressure pump and cost a hell of a lot less. And there are no electronics in a CSV to go bad.

    If your pressure isn't that great with more things running, blame the plumbing more than the pump. It's hard to get ahead of even a little 1/2hp submersible pump with the amount of water they pump as opposed to the water the house can use.

    In my opinion 3/4" plumbing for the main line is any house is too small.

    bob...

  12. #27
    DIY Member jimmym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedbump
    Believe it or not, the CSV valve will do as good a job as a Constant pressure pump and cost a hell of a lot less. And there are no electronics in a CSV to go bad.

    If your pressure isn't that great with more things running, blame the plumbing more than the pump. It's hard to get ahead of even a little 1/2hp submersible pump with the amount of water they pump as opposed to the water the house can use.

    In my opinion 3/4" plumbing for the main line is any house is too small.

    bob...
    I've got 1" to the boiler then it branches to 3/4" for the hot and cold trunks. Not enough? Oh well, how often do I run everything anyway? Right?

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