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Thread: Will Toto toilet help w/ inadequate water flow in older house

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    DIY Junior Member lrsimpson58's Avatar
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    Default Will Toto toilet help w/ inadequate water flow in older house

    Will a Toto toilet or one that has a more forceful flush help for low water flush in an older house? I have 1.6 jacuzzi toilet. The plumber said to flush twice because we do not have enough water flow which is a problem with newer toilets. Which Toto would you recommend and why? G-max flush versus dual cyclone?

    Thanks, great site.

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    In the Trades Gary Swart's Avatar
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    1.6 gpf is the most the law will allow in the US for new toilets. The only way you could get an old 3 gpf is from a private party or junk yard. However, you need to understand that all 1.6 gpf toilets are not equal. There a quite a number of cheap toilets commonly referred to as "builder grade" sold in discount stores. It is not the volume of water that is causing your problem, it is the design of the toilet and the mechanical parts. I would suggest a Toto as these have superior design. Either the G-max or the dual cyclone will get the job done as far as flushing is concerned. The advantage of the dual cyclone is the bowl rinsing is somewhat better. If you have a problem with skid marks, that might be the best for you. Otherwise, take you pick.

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    DIY Senior Member dlarrivee's Avatar
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    What does the age of the house have to do with how the toilet flushes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lrsimpson58 View Post
    Will a Toto toilet or one that has a more forceful flush help for low water flush in an older house? I have 1.6 jacuzzi toilet. The plumber said to flush twice because we do not have enough water flow which is a problem with newer toilets. Which Toto would you recommend and why? G-max flush versus dual cyclone?

    Thanks, great site.
    The plumber is probably trying to tell you you have older pipes.....like cast iron. If the user has a habit of using alot of toilet paper the 1.6 gal per flush toilet does not flush enough water to keep the branch line clean. This will cause that line to collect toilet paper and eventually clogg. Flushing twice will help keep the line cleaner because it will wash the pipe better.

    Consider having the line pressure jetted or have them use a cable with a chain knocker to clean up the cast iron.

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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    It is a rare house where the waste moves all the way to the sewer on the first flush, regardless of the amount of water. It is the succeding flushes, showers, washing machine loads, etc. with long, continuous flows that are likely to clear the line. If you pipes don't have any flat spots, crowns or bellies, you should be fine (IOW, installed and still in proper shape). If you have a history of problems, it's probably not the toilet, it's your drain lines that are the cause.
    Jim DeBruycker
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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

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    DIY Junior Member lrsimpson58's Avatar
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    The house is on a slab and is 50 years old w/ cast iron pipes. The plumber said there was the beginning of tree roots coming through and that they could repair and epoxy. He said they could also install a liner in the pipe. I would welcome opinions on repair to cast iron pipes and liners.

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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    I've no real experience with relining...I've read stories, so take this with a grain of salt. If the pipe is corroded enough such that it has holes in it now allowing roots in, a liner may not work well or for long. The cavity that leaked before will still be there, a root will find that source of water, even if from above, and even if it doesn't break through, is likely to create a bulge and an obstruction. It may be time to bite the bullet and replace. Depending on the depth of the connections, you may not need to run it under the house - there may be room to run it around the side and only need to tear up a small section, rather than through the entire house. You want a nominal 1/4" per foot, but can get away with slightly less on 4" and larger pipe. Regardless, you don't want any flat area or dips...it needs to be constantly dropping down.
    Jim DeBruycker
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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    If you have roots in a line, then treating with Root-X will kill the roots.

    Otherwise, you can always hold the handle down on the flush and scoot things down with 3 gallons.
    My mothers place has cast iron under the house, and then outside goes to clay pipes. 250 feet to the main sewer. She has 1.6 toilets and hasn't had problems moving waste 250 feet.

    The Jacuzzi is a rebranded Eljer toilet.

    Bain Capital bought out Eljer, Crane and American Standard and combined them into one company.

    I think the G-Max or the double Cyclone work just fine. I have the double cyclone in my home and also installed one for my GF.
    Last edited by Terry; 01-19-2012 at 12:19 PM.

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    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    quote; The plumber said there was the beginning of tree roots coming through and that they could repair and epoxy. He said they could also install a liner in the pipe

    You have raised a "red flag" about that plumber. Cast iron pipes do not have "tree roots coming through", and unless they have a video of "your" sewer showing some problem, installing a liner will help him make more money, but do nothing for you. We have nothing to go by to make a diagnosis of what your problem is, but would definitely suggest at least one additional assessment by a "qualified" plumber, which I am not sure yours is. As for the original question about a Toto toilet, a "power flush" toilet just moves stuff out of the bowl faster, but once it is in the pipe, gravity makes all toilets "flow" the same.
    Last edited by hj; 01-15-2012 at 07:25 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hj View Post
    quote; The plumber said there was the beginning of tree roots coming through and that they could repair and epoxy. He said they could also install a liner in the pipe

    You have raised a "red flag" about that plumber. Cast iron pipes do not have "tree roots coming through", and unless they have a video of "your" sewer showing some problem, installing a liner will help him make more money, but do nothing for you. We have nothing to go by to make a diagnosis of what your problem is, but would definitely suggest at least one additional assessment by a "qualified" plumber, which I am not sure yours is. As for the original question about a Toto toilet, a "power flush" toilet just moves stuff out of the bowl faster, but once it is in the pipe, gravity makes all toilets "flow" the same.
    Sorry but cast iron can get roots growing into the joints or a crack in the pipe. Roots will even grown between a closet stub up and concrete then grow down the closet flange. Find it a few times a year.

    It will do this also......


    And this.....


    And when it does......I do this
    Last edited by Hackney plumbing; 01-15-2012 at 07:38 AM.

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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    A pipe with a hole in it will have roots in it if there's a tree anywhere nearby...Now, an intact one would need something unusual to be happening for that to occur.

    Relining can get expensive, as can tearing up your slab.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

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    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    quote; Roots will even grown between a closet stub up and concrete then grow down the closet flange. Find it a few times a year.

    Yes, I get that also, but it has nothing to do with the intergrity of the pipe and relining would not cure it either. So far we have nothing that tells us the cast iron has disintegrated which is the only way roots could get into the pipe. Until we get more information, I will stick with my evaluation that the plumber is trying to make his truck payment, not cure the customer's problem.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

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    Cast iron will get roots growing into it just like any other sewer with leaking joints or cracks.

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    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    First it has to have "leaking joints or cracks" which are not the norm for cast iron sewers, especially one that is ONLY 50 years old..
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

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