Leak in pipe from well to house?

I have a well with submersible pump. My house is a slab. We have had a lot of air in the water line. All of them-(the sinks, toilets ) sound as if they are going to blow up when the water is turned on. I had a plumber come out. He checked my pressure tank-it is o.k. The cut in/cut off on the pressure switch makes a load noise also.The plumber said I had a leak in the pipe somewhere from the well to my house. I dug around the well-no leak there. I dug down to where the black pipe meets the foundation of the house. It is a bit muddy, but no obvious leak. How do I found out where the leak is? I think it may be under my house. Is there a way to find out for sure(without tearing the house up??!!)

Shut off the water to the house, watch the pressure gauge for 10 minutes to see if it falls. If so you have a leak on the well side; that would usually be the check valve in/on the outlet of the submersible pump, or the foot valve on a jet pump. If the pressure holds you don't have a leak from the tank to the pump in the well. So fire the plumber and send him a bill for your excavation! and only call another that knows wells and pumps and can pull the plumbing out of a well. Or better yet, call a pump guy or well driller.

Air in the water usually means the pump is sucking air, or as we say you have a dry well condition. That's when the water level in the well falls to the inlet of the pump. It is abnormal for a water leak to cause air in the water although that can happen on a well system but not usually one with a submersible pump.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

If you do have a submersible pump and there is a check valve in the house by the tank, this could cause air in the lines if there is a leak down the well or even in the line to the well. If not, the pump would run a lot when your not using water. If you have a jet pump and it's sucking air like Gary suggested, you will have to start replacing the suction line, as a suction leak is next to impossible to find. With a slab house this can be a nightmare.bob...

First of all, Thanks for replying!!

I forgot to mention I replaced the well pump about 2 months ago. I installed a Myers Submersible Pump. The well is about 150 feet deep (plenty of water). It seems like I started getting the air in the water line right after that. There is a check valve inside the house(by the pressure tank).

I did like Gary suggested and shut the water off to the house. The pressure didn't fall. I even waited a few minutes longer...still didn't fall. But, when I slowly turned the water back on, I could hear the air in the pipes.
The water pressure is good. Just a lot of air along with it. When we are not using the water, the pump doesn't kick on.

Do you think I should hire someone to try and find the leak, or just run all new line from the well to the house? Any idea what this would cost? I'm confused on what to do! The water line that goes into the foundation of the house is under the garage and comes up in the laundry room)on other side of garage wall).

If you started getting the air right after installing the new pump it sounds like you may have done something wrong during installtion.

The depth of a well is independent of how much water is available. Our company drilled a 3500’ well to the tune of $600,000 and only got 10 gpm (the engineer and hydrologist were a little red faced on this one). It is possible that you are running out of water or that during the last installation something (scale, rust, tape, ect.) was knocked loose and plugged the well screen. It is also possible the well efficiency has decreased with time.

Has there always been gas in the water or is this new? I wonder if it could be gas from the water formation. CO2 or Methane?

The first thing to do is get rid of the check valve at the house. You didn't tell me if you have a galvanized tank or a bladder tank. If galvanized forget my first sentence and we will go with another cure.

If you do have the bladder tank and the check valve, the leak down below is what is causing the air. Without the check valve up top, the leak will leak water under pressure out instead of water not under pressure being replaced with air.

Having a check valve at a bladder tank is a no no anyway. So I suggest removing it.

Who did the swap out of the pump? You or a company?

bob...

I am just learning about well pumps. so I hope I'm explaining everything right.

I have a Well X Trol bladder type tank. I assume it is a "check valve" in the copper pipes coming from under the house, right before the pressure tank. (The check valve is about 3 3/4 inches long X 2 inches wide. It looks to be made of brass???) Is that a check valve? Should there be a check valve somewhere? Should it be down in the well???

My father-in-law and I switched the well pump. He has some experience doing that. We can't figure out what the problem is now, though.

I have noticed there is the most air in the lines whenever the pump kicks on at 28 -pressure gauge. I guess it is the air in the line that makes the loud sound when the pump kicks on and off. I have only lived at this house since July. No problem(that I noticed) until we started losing water pressure. Then lost water completely. Thats when we replaced the well pump(Sept). We Have water - along with AIR! We didn't get the air right away. It was probably about a month later. Now it is getting worse.

Does this sound like something a regular plumber would be able to repair?

Thank you all for your help!

Could the pitless unit be seated poorly? The o-ring gone or pinched? Do you hear water trickling down the inside of the well when the pump is off?

The fact that the pump doesn’t kick on when you are not using water is contrary to the leak concept. UNLESS…you do have a check valve and the leak is on the pump side of the check valve.

Bypass the pressure switch and let the pump run until you see water somewhere. It may take weeks and washout your house foundation, but you’ll find your leak or make a new one. Just kidding.

Yes that is a check valve and should be removed. Then you might listen at the pitless adaptor like Shack said. If it is the o-ring you will hear water hissing or trickling down the casing. You won't hear much with the check valve up top because it's holding the water in the tank.

When you reinstalled the old pump, you either forgot to tighten a joint, or split a pipe (if plastic) or nicked the 0-ring like Shack said.

If none of the above, it's the pipe from the well to the house, but I doubt you would get that much air from a horizontal leak.

bob...

Off topic just a bit

Are there any pumps out there that don't come with a check valve built in?

Not in domestic sizes that I know of. When you get into the two inch pumps it is optional on some brands and standard on others. But I don't know of any two inch or larger pumps that have a built in valve.

Here in my county, the plumbing inspector who is now in charge of the well drillers like me (we have been under the health dept, then the building dept. now the plumbing dept.) have determined that it would be a good idea to put a check valve on every new well drilled. Since we bring the casing above ground then go back underground (no pitless needed) they want the check valve at the top of the well or close by in the pressure line then a union (why I have no idea) in the PVC pipe to the house. Then the tank which us usually next to the well. I can cut PVC pipe a lot quicker than mess with one of those cheap PVC unions with the o-ring that always gets lost in the grass. But hey these guys are the x-perts. I mean they must be.... rite, they work for the government.

I tried to explain the importance of keeping the droppipe pressurized to this Chief Inspector (Cluso) to no avail.

bob...

Even More Off Topic

Now we are getting way off subject.

How about some of the small Grundfos pumps? I swear I read some of their literature and it didn’t mention a check valve. I think these were the SQ pumps.

I would certainly make sure to have a check valve at the pump as well. The well owner defiantly doesn’t want all that water rushing down the well every time the pump shuts off. Talk about “raw hiding!â€

When we do 6" and 8" subs the manufacturer always wants to make sure that we don’t have the check valve right on the pump discharge. They want us to put it at least one joint of pipe above the pump. I wonder why this isn’t as big of a deal on smaller pumps. I guess the efficiency isn’t as important on the smaller horse powers.

I don't sell 4" Grundfos so I don't know. All the 3" subs by Grundfos came with check valves.

What would putting a checkvalve 21' above a large sub have to do with efficiency? And why not right above the pump. I've always put them on top of the pump.

Maybe we should start a new thread.

bob...

This should be moved to a new thread!!

I just placed a call to one of our major pump suppliers in Hastings, NE. After asking about the check valve his immediate response was to place it two joints away from the pump or about forty feet. This would be on 4†or larger pumps. After asking why, he responded that he didn’t know. The particular salesman I spoke to is the third generation with this pump company and has only been in an official position as salesman for about a year. He is still learning and willing to admit it. Anyway, he is planning on getting back to me with the reasoning for placing the check valve in such a position. He also stated that many of their customers do place the valve right off the pump.

My thoughts were that a check valve in that position might cause some turbulence that would goof up the efficiency of the bowls on the turbine. My theory would be akin to improved efficiency of a turbine as the number of stages increases. All I know is that this particular pump company, who has treated us very well and been very knowledgeable, has always recommended this check valve placement.

Ok, I'm starting a new one called the check valve discussion.

bob...

I had the same symptoms..........Suspected the check valve @the pump. So tha lazy electrician installed one @the tank in the basement. The problem persits.......I pulled the pump and found a small hole in the fitting at the check valve causing my grief!

I'm wondering why an electrician is installing check valves.

I think I'll start wiring houses.

bob...