Flange 1" too low with a tile floor

I'm trying to figure out how to set a toilet on a flange that is 1" below the tile floor level. Original plumber just stacked wax rings and of course it's leaking. The ply subfloor has pretty minimal damage as far as I can see. The flange is pvc. There's a finished ceiling below over a rather ornately finished room. I'd rather not have to replace any plumbing from below...

Stack flange extenders? If so, do I use acetone to clean the existing wax off of the flange to get silicone to stick?

Cut the flange off from above and extend with new pvc and flange? This would require some specialized tool that I can almost imagine but don't think I've ever seen. May not exist...

Thanks,
John

1" below the floor is a lot to make up. Top of flange needs to be 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" higher than it now is. Making that up with wax is a non starter! We often use flange stackers, but in this case you need 5 or 6, and some outrageously long bolts! This is really a case where you need to remove the flange and bring it up.

I was afraid I was going to hear that. Any way to do it from above?
I was hoping to hear about some magic extender that would glue onto the existing flange and allow me to put a new flange higher up. This type of problem seems so common and flanges seem so standard that I thought something like this might be available. There is a second bath on the same floor that I'm guessing was done the same way. Fixing these the "right" way represents a lot of work and trouble unfortunately. I'm even beginning to think about making my own extender out of treated ply and marine grade epoxy. That would just end up as a solid block siliconed on top of the existing flange on which I could mount a new flange. 3" stainless screws would reach down to the original sub floor. Crazy?

There are many way's to replace the flange from above the floor. If you tell us what type pipe your working with I'm sure someone will be able to help. Don't use wood that is crazy.

John

Well as I said in the op, it's pvc. The house was built in 1990. Standard construction, plywood sub-floor. As far as I can tell, the rough in was done with the flange mounted on top of the sub-floor and when they decided to put an inch of mortar bed/tile on top no one bothered to raise the flange. I'm not positive the tile was original to the house but I think it was.

My idea with the wood was to encase it in marine grade epoxy. It would have a wood core but essentially be more similar to a 1" plastic extender. Boats are built with wood core and resin/hardener coatings. I think it would hold up fine.

Gotta go...

There are at least three options.
1. Cut out the existing flange from the inside and glue in a new one at the right height. Any plumber worth his/her salt would have the tools to do it.

2. Use flat discs called extenders. They are available in different thicknesses and can be stacked one on top of the other to acheive the desired height.

3. Use an extender insert. They have a stub of pipe that slips inside the existing pipe and use a rubber seal.

What you can do depends on what kind of connection they made when they installed the flange. If it is fastened to a "street elbow", for example, there would NOT be enough pipe left to put a coupling on to once you cut the flange off.

jimbo said:

We often use flange stackers, but in this case you need 5 or 6, and some outrageously long bolts!

Click to expand...

My friend Google tells me that they make them in 1/4", 1/2", and 3/4" thicknesses so only two should be needed. As for the long bolts, given that LocalHero already had a toilet set, he/she must already have bolts long enough. Of course, a repair flange or insert could be put on top of the stack negating the need for long bolts provided there is substantial material to screw into.

quote; Of course, a repair flange or insert could be put on top of the stack negating the need for long bolts

I would NEVER install a "stack" of spacers without the closet bolts going through all of them, with a nut on top of the last one, and then through the toilet so it becomes a single unit.

OK, I admit these options sound better than my plywood and epoxy idea if for no other reason than that they're less work! When I tried to look up this issue on these forums I ended up under the impression that the flange stackers only came in 1/4" or so. The idea that they come up to 3/4" makes them more appealing.

I'll have to go back and look at the type of connection that was used to see if it could be cut and re-worked with a new flange. That option actually sounds most secure if it's possible.

The push-in type flange extenders that work with a gasket look promising also though I'm not sure if any of them work without removing the exisitng flange. I won't be back there til Monday and then I'll take closer note of the exact conditions. My local plumbing supply should have which ever options make the most sense. I guess the best way to clean all the wax off of the existing flange is lots of denatured alcohol?

Thanks all for talking me out of plywood and epoxy and enlightening me as to some of the options.

John

A new flange is most definitely the best alternative. Unfortunately, this is probably not a DIY job. I would point out that this will be a repair that will last a long as your house lasts. Would other alternatives work? Maybe, but who can tell for sure. A plumber will know the best options for replacing the flange and have the tools and expertise to make the repair.

Yah, it would have been nice if the Lowe's guy had told me about those too. Thank you so much for the reassurance. I will probably go ahead and buy the extra thick wax ring like you said but for now until I get to the store, I am turning on the water and unlocking the door! Thank you!

Gary Swart said:

A new flange is most definitely the best alternative. Unfortunately, this is probably not a DIY job. I would point out that this will be a repair that will last a long as your house lasts. Would other alternatives work? Maybe, but who can tell for sure. A plumber will know the best options for replacing the flange and have the tools and expertise to make the repair.

Click to expand...

Well I make no pretense that I'm a plumber, but I'm not exactly a DIY'er either. I've been working in construction for 30+ yrs and while my expertise is mainly in carpentry, I have a mess of tools, decent common sense and a good understanding of materials. I'll talk to them at the plumbing supply and see what tricks they have to replace the flange. I'll decide if I'll spring for whatever specialized tools are needed at that point.

Thanks,
John

It really depends on what's beneath the flange. If it sits on a riser, you can probably use an internal pipe cutter (looks sort of like a circular saw on a rod used in a drill), then if there's room, a coupler, a riser that is longer, then your new flange. Or, if it is a riser that fits into a socket, you can get a special drill bit designed to ream out the socket so you can install a new piece into it. If the flange fits directly into an elbow, it gets harder.

Get that flange mounted on top finished floor. My situation slightly different than yours since after tile floor was installed I had easy access from basement to underside of plumbing in 1st floor bathroom

quote; I'll talk to them at the plumbing supply and see what tricks they have to replace the flange.

If they are like my supply house they will tell you, "Beats me, I have NEVER done plumbing so I have not had to replace any." And ever if they had, most will not give you advice, because if you screw up you will be back there yelling at them and threatening to sue them because of bad advice.

You might want to try stacking 2 of http://sanisealgasket.com/?page_id=162 these.

They claim you can stack 2 of them. Look at the video.

I just used them on 2 toilets in the last few weeks and I was impressed.

Jerry

hj said:

quote; I'll talk to them at the plumbing supply and see what tricks they have to replace the flange.

If they are like my supply house they will tell you, "Beats me, I have NEVER done plumbing so I have not had to replace any." And ever if they had, most will not give you advice, because if you screw up you will be back there yelling at them and threatening to sue them because of bad advice.

Click to expand...

It was similar to that. Guy just pulls out an "extension kit" complete with a little tube of silicone and hands it to me after looking at it for a moment (presumably to see how it worked). Said that's the only option they have.

JerryR said:

You might want to try stacking 2 of http://sanisealgasket.com/?page_id=162 these.

They claim you can stack 2 of them. Look at the video.

I just used them on 2 toilets in the last few weeks and I was impressed.

Jerry

Click to expand...

I would consider these if I could see them in person. They don't have anyone near here who carries them though.

The flange, it turns out is connected directly to a street elbow. I'll end up going with the stack of extenders most likely. I will be able to screw thru all of them into the subfloor so that should help turn them into one unit.

Now the toilet is growling at me...

I remedied the low flanges with a stack of extensions. THat's pretty much what both supply houses I got to had to offer. The extensions were 1/4" thick so I had to stack 4 on one flange and two on the other.

All went well til I flushed the toilets the next day. The one toilet with 2 extensions makes a sound that made me remember when I was a little kid and was taken to the Philadelphia Zoo and we heard the lions roaring at feeding time. When we were outside their house the noise was muffled and sort of distant but it was a very deep, wet throaty roar. That's what this toilet sounds like when flushed. Seems like there is some sort of air movement/vibration issue going on but I'm scratching my head over just what it is.

The toilets are Toto Dalton elongated ADA.

The flanges were not the same in both bathrooms. In the one my original post was about the flange was set on top of the subfloor and then the mortar bed/tile was set around it. I used 4 extensions to raise this flange level. I put 4 screws going down into the subfloor thru the whole assembly and the toilet bolts go all the way thru from the original flange. This toilet seems to have just a small amount of the "growling" noise. Nothing that I would consider abnormal or problematic.

The other flange situation was a little different. That flange is set about 1/2" higher but I can't see what (if anything) attaches it to the subfloor. It did seem pretty solid, so I accepted it and gave it the same treatment with stacked flanges screwed to the sublfoor and bolts that go thru the whole assembly from the original flange on up. This is the loud toilet.

I never flushed the previous 3.5gph toilet (because it leaked) but the owner didn't report any excessive noise with that one. Since this one uses 2 gal less water it seems unlikely it's a venting issue. Could it be a faulty toilet?