toilet craftsmanship question

I just brought home a brand name toilet that I had assumed was made in Wisconsin and was surprised as I removed the toilet bowl from the carton to inspect for damage. The under side of the bowl had three areas that had a porcelain like white-ish patch while the rest of the underside was unglazed. Two of the areas were on adjacent sides of the bottom of the round bowl part at the front and the third area was right in the center under where I guess the water jets into the trap area.

My question is.... could this be a normal manufacturing process or are all three areas patched to deal with defects or cracks in the clay ? The two areas under the bowl look like the clay may have been cracked and then covered with this white-ish stuff but the area under the water jet area is hard to understand..

I am concerned about a problem with these areas later after the one year guarantee ends..

Also the LITTLE sticker on the underside of the bowl said"crafted in china"

Does any one have any knowledge about this??? I am thinking about returning the toilet . It is a two piece toilet...
Thanks...

You have discovered what many on this forum have learned. All toilets are not created equal, and well known popular brands from the past are very poorly made and have very poor quality control. In addition, some of these manufacturers sell their blems to Big Box Stores. Aside from casting mishaps, most of these companies have not truly redesigned their toilets to function well with the lower water usage requirement. It is interesting that the largest manufacturer of toilets in the world remains relatively unknown to the general public. Toto was the leader in low flow toilet technology and continues to lead the competition. They are not sold in BB Stores, but can be ordered by a plumbing shop if they do not stock them. Terry has very informative information linked to the home page of this forum, and it would be worthwhile for you to read through it. As to what you can do about the junk you bought, I can only suggest that you take it back for a refund then find a Toto. There are many models to choose from, some unbelievable expensive, but many at a modest price. One thing they have in common is trouble free operation.

Quality control and consistency are evident in the Toto product line. This, unfortunately, isn't the case with all manufacturers. According to Terry, his return rate on Toto is less than 1%, where some brands can reach nearly 50%. Thing is, Toto often isn't more expensive, either. They just have their act together.

Come on.

Toto are a lot more expensive.

Ian Gills said:

Come on.

Toto are a lot more expensive.

Click to expand...

Yes and no.

Toto base models are quite pricey compared to basic toilets, yes.

But when you get into the higher-end, more "stylish" (!) toilets, there are lots nowadays that are in the $400-$500-$600 range. So they're up there and comparable to many of the Toto models.

And all of the brassware is pricey too.

It's just not economic for someone who may only be in their home for a few years or is on a limited income.

Sure, millionaires go ahead and buy Toto.

Sure, Americans that are going to die in the houses they currently live in go ahead and buy Toto.

But for the average American professional moving every fives years or so, save your pension and go Big Box.

Ian, I understand your comments.

But people have become nuts about luxury items in their homes, no matter what their level and intentions. Everyone wants granite counters and high end appliances, and a pair of Lexus in the garage. So a $300 Drake toilet, or even a fancy $600 model, is no biggie compared to all that.

Does it *really* make any sense? I can't argue that point with you!

In these hard times we all need to tigthen our belts.

The only time I like to see a Toto is in a restaurant or a business class lounge at the airport where I know the owner can afford it.

Ian, the Dalton is a totally functional, decent toilet and Terry sells it for $183.99. That's not expensive. Yes, you can spend lots more, but style is in the eye of the beholder, and in most cases, you can pay more for the fancier things in life.

...and the American Standard Cadet 3 for just $163, the balance on which could be gainfully used to provide a fish supper for me and the family.

For many of my customers, it's hard to sell them a second American Standard toilet or Kohler.
Maybe if they hadn't seen or used the Toto first, they would have been okay with A/S or Kohler.
Most of the time what is happening is this:

A homeowner has a visitor, friend, family member or someone from work uses the bathroom. He comes out after using it and says, "What is that?" the answer being TOTO.

"I want one!"

It's that simple, then they call me and I sell them a household full of TOTO toilets.

They may have a Lexus, Toyota, Mercedes, maybe a Buick or Ford, but whatever they drive, the TOTO makes sense for them. They see the quality and the performance, and they want it. And for some, they want to buy American. That would be like the Ultramax, Soiree, Guinevere, sometimes the Drake II, and a few others that are made in the Southeast part of America, Atlanta Georgia.
But even Toto's imports have the same quality as the American counterparts.
Typically, parts for them can be found at Lowes Hardware on the shelf.
It's really a no-brainer.

One of my customers has bought at least 12 Toto toilets, and one Niagara Flapperless and one Cadet 3.
He only buys the Toto now.

Without seeing pictures of the Kohler bowl, it would be hard to guess if there is a problem or not.
Sometimes, part of the manufacturing process includes some patches or plugs.
The bottom of a bowl is never glazed; if it were the wax would never stick.

Ian,
If you're barely scrapping by, I know your car is getting pretty tired, then you get what you can afford. No worries mate.
You need to save your pennies so you can still have your afternoon tea.
We have so much here, that we throw it into the harbor sometimes.

Ian, when you figure the average service life of a typical toilet in a home the difference between your Cadet 3 and a good toilet like a Toto is less than a penny a day...

Kinda like the difference between...



and...



Sometimes the savings just isn't worth it...

toilet quality

Gary Swart said:

You have discovered what many on this forum have learned. All toilets are not created equal, and well known popular brands from the past are very poorly made and have very poor quality control. In addition, some of these manufacturers sell their blems to Big Box Stores. Aside from casting mishaps, most of these companies have not truly redesigned their toilets to function well with the lower water usage requirement. It is interesting that the largest manufacturer of toilets in the world remains relatively unknown to the general public. Toto was the leader in low flow toilet technology and continues to lead the competition. They are not sold in BB Stores, but can be ordered by a plumbing shop if they do not stock them. Terry has very informative information linked to the home page of this forum, and it would be worthwhile for you to read through it. As to what you can do about the junk you bought, I can only suggest that you take it back for a refund then find a Toto. There are many models to choose from, some unbelievable expensive, but many at a modest price. One thing they have in common is trouble free operation.

Click to expand...

Gary...thanks for your input

jindil..

You are quite welcome. For what it's worth, Ian likes to promote his AS Cadet 3, but I think most of what he says is just to stir the pot a bit. I chalk it off to his English sense of humor. Study what Terry wrote. He has sold literally thousands of Toto toilets so he has a wealth of experience with them.

Ian, when you figure the average service life of a typical toilet in a home the difference between your Cadet 3 and a good toilet like a Toto is less than a penny a day...

Click to expand...

Hmm. Old Redwood and his penny-a-day trick again.

Now my Cadet 3 is already four years old and still going strong. Forgive me if I don't really care much if it lasts fifty years and a Toto will.

Who wants a fifty year old toilet?

I maintain that the Cadet 3 is and will remain a quality piece of porcelain for the discerning East Coast professional.

I take great personal pride in mine. And would take great delight in one day setting up an owners club for it.

With badges. And gatherings in the Nation's Capital. Like the bikers do every year around Veterans' Day.

Like the Glen Beck Rally?

I understand that only a few Christians are okay in Glen's eyes.
I wonder how everyone else feels about that. If the Christians don't belong in the US, then who will be left under the Glen Beck reign of, what did he call it? Bringing us into some sort of unity?
Didn't Germany do that once?

I didn't go to the Glen Beck rally, but I might go to Ian's.
What are you having for food?
I like diversity.

Ian Gills said:

I take great personal pride in mine. And would take great delight in one day setting up an owners club for it.

With badges. And gatherings in the Nation's Capital. Like the bikers do every year around Veterans' Day.

Click to expand...

You guys could call yourselves the Lucky Cadet 3 Owners Club in that you were lucky enough to get a good one on the 1st trip to the big box store...

Look, it's a big box store. Things get bumped around and dropped from great heights. Customers can handle the merchandise for God's sake. I've had circuit breakers with handles that cracked off when I got them home that came from places like that. They're not handled in velvet gloves like they are at Terry's, stored out the back away from the hands of curious punters and their children. With his Toto brassware in the purple bags.

It is a testament to the delicately crafted clay that goes into making each and every Cadet 3 unique that they even stand a chance of arriving home in one piece from a BBS. But even so a few may get chipped. It's to be expected.

Besides, Terry also sells them so they must be good.

I am of the belief that each Cadet 3 must surely be delicately moulded by hand by a qualified Central American craftsman with extensive experience.



Obama (the plumber and the Pres) would be most welcome at my rally. Food would comprise a hybrid of African and Caribbean cuisine.

We'd have plantain on the grill and coconut milk on tap.

Ian Gills said:

I am of the belief that each Cadet 3 must surely be delicately moulded by hand by a qualified Central American craftsman with extensive experience.

Click to expand...

I fixed it for you... for all except the ones made in Mexico and Brazil....

Terry, I have some pictures of the patches? I asked about on the underside of the bowl if I can get them attached here. But after closer examination of the patch under the water jet? area I looked at the inside of the bowl bottom and the patch is actually what looks like a plug but it (the plug) is not flush with the surface where the water jets out.It is actually a depression about 3/4 inch in diameter and about 1/2 inch deep and is NOT covered with porcelain.This sure seems to me like a factory defect.I cant believe this is a part of this toilets design.It would cause the water flow to be disrupted and keeping that part clean would seem next to impossible.

Also what is a class 6 toilet verses a class 5 ? And can they be identified other that the stores or manufacturers literature?

Thanks... Looks like my pictures didnt attach..I will try again later with help from someone who knows what they are doing..(I see the icon for INSERT IMAGE) but dont have a clue about (enter URL of image)