dekelly
New Member
I understand that this is a real stupid question but I do not know where to turn. Basically I am being blamed and sued for using the standard multi-turn (NSF) shut-off valves when I removed a vanity. The claim is that these valves randomly turn themselves back on. I am not talking about a leaking condition. I am talking about a valve that goes from being off to spraying water on the ceiling. Additionally the valve still works! It was turned back off. Not a blown gasket. This claim is being made by a licensed plumber as well as the property manager. They claim this happens all the time! I was negligent since I did not cap off the valves. To add insult to injury, we are talking less than a day here.
Of course the main problem is that I am being told by the association that I cannot be 100% sure that this did not happen since these licensed professionals say it happens all the time. Unfortunately that is the nature of science/observation, we can never be 100% sure. We cannot prove 100% that gravity exists, the Sun will come up in the east and set in the west, etc.. I have no means to prove something did not happen. I am just trying to find out if there is anybody who has actually seen this happen or has an explanation on how it could happen. Personally I think there would be warning labels on shut-off valves telling you not to use them to shut-off water if they are know to randomly turn themselves on. The manufacture would want to protect themselves from lawsuits. If it actually ends up in court, I guess I will be joining a manufacture. I have to be able to override testimony of licensed professionals .
Like I said it is a stupid question, but I had to ask it.
It is not like I do not know what happened. The Property Manager sees the condo complex as his territory. Historically he has been ripping off the condo owners for side work in the complex. I am starting to take his side work away. First he tried to get the board to pass a rule to prevent people he does not approve from doing work within the complex. Typical. Of course that is a joke and did not work. You cannot tell an owner who they can hire. Fortunately he is not really that smart.
In this situation the fire department was called when the neighbor noticed a wet floor and heard water rushing in the vacant apartment. The fire department report that they found the apartment secured. All windows and doors were locked. So they had to literally chop the door down. (I had the dead bolt going into steel with 4-4 inch screws.) They report that the water coming from a shut off valve was hitting the ceiling. Plus the ceiling is damaged where the water was hitting it. The report says that they turned the valve off and then wrapped a rag around the valve. Then called the building inspector and property management company.
The property manager claims that this proves it is my fault. It could not be vandals since the apartment was secure. Of course what he doesn't mention is the fact that he has access to the apartment. The association requires that the management company has keys to all units. This was no exception. He had access to the master key. Of course it is ridiculous to even think he had something to do with it. Had he left a door or window open, he would still have done the same damage, but obviously I would not be blamed. (I guess it would not be good enough to collect on my insurance, He wants to specifically blame me.)
There could even be merit in the case if he had broken a pipe. He could claim I broke the pipe in took off so I would not be blamed. Therefore I truly believe that this idiot actually believes that these valves turn themselves on! His plumber buddy is not that bright and perhaps he actually believes it to. I mean the property manager is good at the BS he flings. What it tells me is that somehow he got this concept that these screws back themselves off. More than likely something he misinterpreted. My real question is where did he get this idea?
If anyone is curious, he has already ran the bill up to $35K even though there was no damage to other apartments or the hallway. Of course he had his plumber cap off the valve, has thrown away the carpet, torn out the wallboard, where the wallboard was not removed it was smashed with a hammer to test for mold, bent up the radiators, and broke the door jam because I secured the apartment with a lock I mounted into the broken door. Just today I walked into the 500 sq ft apartment. He had 12 commercial blower going, along with 3 commercial dehumidifiers to demold the place. They even had to bring in additional power since there was not enough in the apartment. It is a challenge to even get in the apartment with all the equipment there. I guess when you are being charged per hour on equipment, you can never have enough.
It has become a joke. But I am constantly being told that these valves turn themselves on. I just cannot figure out where that comes from.
Of course the main problem is that I am being told by the association that I cannot be 100% sure that this did not happen since these licensed professionals say it happens all the time. Unfortunately that is the nature of science/observation, we can never be 100% sure. We cannot prove 100% that gravity exists, the Sun will come up in the east and set in the west, etc.. I have no means to prove something did not happen. I am just trying to find out if there is anybody who has actually seen this happen or has an explanation on how it could happen. Personally I think there would be warning labels on shut-off valves telling you not to use them to shut-off water if they are know to randomly turn themselves on. The manufacture would want to protect themselves from lawsuits. If it actually ends up in court, I guess I will be joining a manufacture. I have to be able to override testimony of licensed professionals .
Like I said it is a stupid question, but I had to ask it.
It is not like I do not know what happened. The Property Manager sees the condo complex as his territory. Historically he has been ripping off the condo owners for side work in the complex. I am starting to take his side work away. First he tried to get the board to pass a rule to prevent people he does not approve from doing work within the complex. Typical. Of course that is a joke and did not work. You cannot tell an owner who they can hire. Fortunately he is not really that smart.
In this situation the fire department was called when the neighbor noticed a wet floor and heard water rushing in the vacant apartment. The fire department report that they found the apartment secured. All windows and doors were locked. So they had to literally chop the door down. (I had the dead bolt going into steel with 4-4 inch screws.) They report that the water coming from a shut off valve was hitting the ceiling. Plus the ceiling is damaged where the water was hitting it. The report says that they turned the valve off and then wrapped a rag around the valve. Then called the building inspector and property management company.
The property manager claims that this proves it is my fault. It could not be vandals since the apartment was secure. Of course what he doesn't mention is the fact that he has access to the apartment. The association requires that the management company has keys to all units. This was no exception. He had access to the master key. Of course it is ridiculous to even think he had something to do with it. Had he left a door or window open, he would still have done the same damage, but obviously I would not be blamed. (I guess it would not be good enough to collect on my insurance, He wants to specifically blame me.)
There could even be merit in the case if he had broken a pipe. He could claim I broke the pipe in took off so I would not be blamed. Therefore I truly believe that this idiot actually believes that these valves turn themselves on! His plumber buddy is not that bright and perhaps he actually believes it to. I mean the property manager is good at the BS he flings. What it tells me is that somehow he got this concept that these screws back themselves off. More than likely something he misinterpreted. My real question is where did he get this idea?
If anyone is curious, he has already ran the bill up to $35K even though there was no damage to other apartments or the hallway. Of course he had his plumber cap off the valve, has thrown away the carpet, torn out the wallboard, where the wallboard was not removed it was smashed with a hammer to test for mold, bent up the radiators, and broke the door jam because I secured the apartment with a lock I mounted into the broken door. Just today I walked into the 500 sq ft apartment. He had 12 commercial blower going, along with 3 commercial dehumidifiers to demold the place. They even had to bring in additional power since there was not enough in the apartment. It is a challenge to even get in the apartment with all the equipment there. I guess when you are being charged per hour on equipment, you can never have enough.
It has become a joke. But I am constantly being told that these valves turn themselves on. I just cannot figure out where that comes from.
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