Best flushing toilet for 10" rough-in? TOTO 10" Drake

[catorgs]

We are putting a bathroom in our basement, and bought a Toto Drake, hoping finally for a toilet that I don't have to plunge every day. But it turns out that the rough-in is only 10-1/2". Since the Drake is a 12", we can't install it. What is my next best option for a great-flushing toilet? I am looking at the Toto Vespin, but it has an elongated seat and my husband prefers the round seat.

[Terry]

In the Seattle area, I'm bringing in some 10" Toto Drake toilets.
They only need 9-1/4" to install.

CST744EF.10 or CST744SF.10

Comfort height, elongated bowl with either the 1.28 gallon Watersense Eco Flush
or the 1.6 gallon G-Max flush.
http://www.terrylove.com/pdf/cst744ef.10.pdf

In the Seattle area

[catorgs]

Are the 10" Drakes available all over the country? We live in Maryland. Do you know of a supplier out here? That would be great if I could find one! Do they require any special installation? I know the Vespin requires a 10" Unifit.

[Terry]

Any TOTO dealer can get these.
The TOTO website has a dealer locator.

www.totousa.com

The toilet installs like any other Drake.
The bowl drops right onto the flange.

Or an upgrade to the Drake is the Vespin II


Toto Vespin II CST474CEFG with SS114 Softclose seat.
This bowl was installed on a 13-1/2" rough-in using the 14" Unifit adapter.
The water shutoff can be as close as 5-1/2" to the left of center, unless it's higher off the floor, and then it can be even closer to center.
This shutoff had been replaced with a new 1/4 turn valve with brass nipple through the wall.
Installation was by James Love of Love Plumbing & Remodel 206-949-5683
In some of the older Seattle homes, the old toilets had been wall mounted tank toilets.
Those typically are 14" rough-in and need a flange repair to use standard closet bolt connections at the flange.
Everything is on the truck for that.
The Vespin comes with a standard 12" adapter or you can order a 10" or 14" adapter depending on your rough-in distance.

[RosieBC]

We are also looking for a Toto toilet with a 10" rough-in and round seat, and would strongly prefer the Drake due to price. The Toto website, and our local plumbing supplier, says that the Drake is only available in a 12" rough-in, which will definitely not fit our space. Any idea if the 10" is still available, and where we could get it in the Austin area? Do you ship?

[Terry]

What he means is that the Drake 10 only comes in the elongated bowl.
C744EF.10

I personally don't ship porcelain anymore.
I got tired of truck drivers dropping the stuff.
Oak Harbor Freight Lines managed to break five one-piece toilets for me and refused to cover the damage.
So I was out for five toilets and the shipping for them. In this case, it was the guy that I gave the toilets to, I made the mistake of asking him not to break them.
We loaded five toilets on a pallet, and he flew off up the ramp and turned that baby so sharp that the all fell off the fork lift.
But then, maybe you will have better luck.
However, when I talk to people that are still shipping, they're breaking about 20% of the porcelain they are shipping.
Like maybe once in a blue moon.

The funny thing is that the stuff I get that's packed tight from the factory is almost never broken.
Maybe once in a blue moon.

For 10" Rough toilets,
CST744EF.10 Toto Drake
Any skirted TOTO that takes a 10" Unifit.
CST412MF.10 Aquia 10"
Cadet 3 with 10" tank
Gerber Ultraflush with 10" tank

[bsnelson]

OK, I have an even bigger (smaller?) problem - I need a toilet with a 10" rough-in AND a round bowl, no more than 26 inches total length.

Do I have any Toto options here, or do I have to go with another manufacturer, and if so, who? I'm willing to spend up to $600-700 or so to get something that will flush well on the first try, every time. No loud power flushers, though, as it's located where noise would definitely be an issue.

Thanks in advance for any and all recommendations.

Brad

[jadnashua]

You may be out of luck. Most manufacturers take their stock 12" toilet bowl, and put a different tank on it to allow it closer to the wall, and call it a 10". Only Toto makes the same exact toilet fit on either 10, 12, or 14" with the use of a special adapter, but since it is the same toilet, it is always the same distance from the wall. I don't know the differences in the Drake when it is 10, or 12" rough-in. It may take lots of GOogle searches to confirm or deny my presumption, but I think you're out of luck, especially when you really want one that works well.

Now, if you can move the rough-in to 12", you might have a few more choices. If the length is because of a door, you might consider changing how it opens (say open out instead of in or change it to a pocket door).

[Terry]

The Cadet 3 round with the 3011.016 bowl and 4019.016 tank is 26-1/4" from the wall.
Since the bowl sits back 2", you do wind up picking up some space.

[bsnelson]

Thanks for the responses! Unfortunately, we have no flexibility in size; the 10" rough-in is a given because we're on a concrete slab, and there's a closet door at a 45 degree angle to the toilet that already hits the current toilet before it's open to 90 degrees. I do need to make a minor correction, though (sorry, I'm still new to all of this): Measuring from the finished wall to the front of the toilet (which is American Standard's way of measuring), we have 27 inches, so the 26 1/4" American Standard would fit fine, and might even let us open the closet door more (it's that close to being able to open more). Restricting the door's movement isn't an option, reversing the hinging isn't an option, and certainly having it open inward isn't an option. It's just a tight fit all around.

Terry, does the Cadet 3 do a good job in the flushing department? While anything would be an improvement over what we have now, I'm hoping to get a BIG improvement, and I'm worried that the Cadet is so inexpensive.

Brad

[Terry]

You don't have lots of choices in 10" that will fit.
It will work fine. \
I do like to pull them from the box and inspect before bringing them home.

[Gary Swart]

The biggest complaint about AS toilets is that many of them have manufacturing defects. That's why many professional plumbers don't like them. Do as Terry advises, and inspect them before you take them home. Make sure they set level and have no visible casting blemishes. It is my not-so-humble opinion that AS ships lots of their defects to big box stores. They'll replace them when the customer returns them, but probably lots of them don't come back. Plumbers don't like to make two or three trips to deal with these problems. Best thing to do is to buy from a "real" plumbing supply, but still check the toilets out.

[bsnelson]

It's amazing what can become an option when you're faced with the possibility of having to accept a, well, crappy toilet. After explaining the AS situation to my wife, she's willing to give up an inch or two of closet door swing to get into a Toto or other quality elongated bowl toilet.

With that in mind, I started measuring more closely, and now I'm confused. I've read several articles on how to measure the rough-in, but I'm still a bit confused. When I measure from the finished wall to the centerline of the bolts, I get 11 1/2 inches. Does this mean that I, in fact, have a 12" rough-in? How much space do I really need between the tank/rear of the toilet and the wall? Can I take the dimension specs provided by Toto to heart (e.g. I won't find that their 12 inches is really 12 1/2)?

Sorry for all of the newbie questions, and if I should take my discussion to a new thread, I'm fine with that.

Brad

[jadnashua]

Yes, you have a (slightly short) normal 12" rough-in. Most toilets have some space behind them - some as much as nearly 2". The Drake has a fair amount. The Totos that use the UniFit adapter typically have 3/4" behind them. WRT setting the toilet, most you can fudge a 1/4" or so since the outlet isn't as big as the hole in the flange and the bolt slots are generally elongated some. So, you should be able to use most any 12" rough toilet that meets your length considerations. Keep in mind, you can fudge backwards, too, if the toilet has enough room behind. You don't want the tank hitting the wall, but close is generally okay. You want a little room for ventilation in case the toilet is flushed frequently, and sweats. this normally isn't a problem since you only are replacing about 1/2 the water in the tank...what's there will warm it up unless it was just recently flushed.

[KiterTodd]

Are the 10" Drakes available all over the country? We live in Maryland. Do you know of a supplier out here? That would be great if I could find one! Do they require any special installation? I know the Vespin requires a 10" Unifit.

Don't know where you live in MD, but this is the place I got mine. Friendly place;
http://www.atlanticbathbrass.com/products.nxg