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Thread: Shower handle sticking out too far

  1. #16
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    According to Moens own specs, they allow 1-1/4" tolerance plus or minus.

    If you found someone at Moen that doesn't agree with their engineered specs, then either that one person is wrong, or they need to change the spec sheet.

    However, that being said, everything about that valve is working and I've seen many installed that way and in use.

    A note to Chel,
    Why did you plumb with galvanized pipe?
    Combining galvanized and copper is never a good idea.

  2. #17
    DIY Member chel_in_IL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    A note to Chel,
    Why did you plumb with galvanized pipe?
    Combining galvanized and copper is never a good idea.
    Talk to the fiance...

  3. #18
    DIY Member chel_in_IL's Avatar
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    BTW, it's not directly copper to galvanized. The rest of the house is galvanized, and the shower valve is in between the two metals. From what I've read online, this is acceptable (but correct me if I am wrong.)

  4. #19
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    BTW, it's not directly copper to galvanized. The rest of the house is galvanized, and the shower valve is in between the two metals. From what I've read online, this is acceptable (but correct me if I am wrong.)
    It's okay to run galvanized to a brass valve.
    It's more like,

    why?

    I just like removing all galvanized whenever the walls are open.
    Galvanized makes for rusty looking water, though the rest of the house has them anyway.

  5. #20

    Default Moen 82496

    My plumber just replaced an old Delta single handle shower/tub fixture and installed a Moen 82496bn. I chose this Moen because it had a spout that didn't protrude too much and a smaller shower head. The handle sticks out about 3.75 inches+ from the finished wall ( the gap between the handle cover and the wall plate is about 1 1/4 inch. It is not aesthetically pleasing at all, but I have an older house and I'm only willing to do repairs without remodeling or tearing out walls. The plumber and I didn't want to break the tile and open the wall beyond the existing 6 inch diameter opening. The wall tiles are not thick but the mudded wall behind it is about 1 inch thick. Is there any adjustment that can be made to reduce the gap? Thanks to everyone for all the information. Jim's link to the Moen specification website was very helpful as well as Terry's information on Moen's tolerance for installation.

  6. #21
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    chel_in_IL, In any future project I would get rid of as much of the Galv, as possible. At least the stuff in any wall that is opened up! Just put a 8" brass nipple between any copper and Galv. connection.

  7. #22

    Default showerhead defective

    The Moen showerhead in the 82496 kit seemed to have much more volume than 2.5 gpm spec. Turns out the internals were defective and missing part of the restrictor. So I used a Grohe showerhead that I had from 10 years ago and it now has the proper flow volume out of the showerhead which is much better than the excess volume out of the moen valve water spout. Along with the extra swivel from the Grohe showerhead makes this Moen acceptable; even with the unappealing Moen handle sticking out problem.

  8. #23
    Plumber patrick88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DianaJ View Post
    My plumber just replaced an old Delta single handle shower/tub fixture and installed a Moen 82496bn. I chose this Moen because it had a spout that didn't protrude too much and a smaller shower head. The handle sticks out about 3.75 inches+ from the finished wall ( the gap between the handle cover and the wall plate is about 1 1/4 inch. It is not aesthetically pleasing at all, but I have an older house and I'm only willing to do repairs without remodeling or tearing out walls. The plumber and I didn't want to break the tile and open the wall beyond the existing 6 inch diameter opening. The wall tiles are not thick but the mudded wall behind it is about 1 inch thick. Is there any adjustment that can be made to reduce the gap? Thanks to everyone for all the information. Jim's link to the Moen specification website was very helpful as well as Terry's information on Moen's tolerance for installation.
    I would assume your plumber installed it to the best of his ability with the limits he faced. Opening the wall might not have give the valve any more room to move back. The wall behind is a big factor also.

    guess the point is that we had a functioning bathroom... but we are having the whole thing redone for aesthetic purposes... while it may function ok, it looks bad... We are paying too much to have a bathroom that looks wrong.

    My husband called Moen and they said the max it should stick out is 3/4 of an inch, but even then 1/4 of an inch is really more acceptable...

    Moen told us to tell the plumber to move the valve back. Is this even possible at this point? The fiberglass walls are already up... do they need to be taken down?

    If we just bought a new trim kit can it be installed at this point?
    The shower valve should have come with a thin plastic plate. This is attached to the valve body for thin plastic walls. It hold it so the valve sticks out within tolerances.
    I'm just starting to work with an old friend of mine to bring solar electric and hot water systems, wind turbines, Flex Fuel Boilers, batteries, hydroponic gardening, books, pellet grills and more. Also the parts for DIY installation.

  9. #24

    Default My Valve Is Out Too Far Too!

    This thread may have saved my butt.

    I have the same problem alphonse55 and Daydream46 have. My plumber probably didn't read the installation specs and mine is a Moen as well. The valve sticks out such that it leaves about an inch gap between the handle and trim plate. I was thinking there was no way to fix this without ripping off my newly tiled wall and repositioning the valve. But then I saw this post...

    Here are two pictures of mine, below, after applying the same workaround (i.e., using the Stop Tube to bridge the gap). I added rubber washers to the screws since they will be exposed now. Also, the shiny stuff around the Stop Tube is fresh caulk. I added the caulk because I didn't trust the weak little gasket where the trim plate meets the Stop Tube.

    I have a question, though, about the black tube (spans gap between wall trim plate and handle) referred to as the "Stop Tube Kit" in Moen's specs. According to the Moen manual, http://www.moen.com/shared/pdf/instr...ts/INS795C.pdf, (see step 6), the tube thingy, part B, is supposed to be used if the valve is too far back into the wall. But in this thread, it was used to fix a problem with the valve being too far out of the wall.

    1. What is this piece truly intended for?

    2. If it was meant to be used back inside the wall why would its finish match that of the handle? In other words, it certainly looks like it was designed to be seen, not hidden.

    3. Finally, many people on this thread are saying this is acceptable. When I look at the wall side of the handle piece (see 3rd picture), I certainly can't believe Moen designed it to be away from the wall in some installations. Am I missing something.
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  10. #25

    Default

    I think the plumber failed to check how far out the finished product would be. (Maybe because he didn't like where you bought the product he didn't pay as much atttention to the job...)I always insist on having the finish plumbing on hand so I can verify what the finished product will look like before I install anything.
    I'm getting the feeling that these answers are backing up the "plumber" out of professional respect or because we all know how difficult some jobs can be.
    Bottom line though is that it is sticking out to far, period. As was mentioned, maybe it can be fixed by opening the wall behind it.
    Last edited by steveg91; 07-07-2008 at 09:23 PM.

  11. #26
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Default valve

    I'm getting the feeling that these answers are backing up the "plumber" out of professional respect or because we all know how difficult some jobs can be.

    Now you are attacking our credulity. The MANUFACTURER is the one who decides the +/- tolerance of the valve. Exceed those limits and you either cannot install the trim parts, or you have to add a "deep rough" adapter. Between the + and the -, whatever they are is an acceptable installation. I personally prefer to hug the shorter distance, even if it puts the handle out further, because, regardless of what I am told will be the finished wall, customers often decide at the last minute that a thicker tile, or a mud method installation would be a lot nicer. Sometimes, such as with a couple of mine in the last two months, they decide to use a tile that is 1" thick, and it exceeds the +/- tolerances and still has to be opened up and reset. Some manufacturers have such a tight +/- that it might as well not exist. For those the plumber has to know the EXACT wall thickness and the carpenter and tile installer MUST keep keep it to that dimension, which seldom happens.

  12. #27
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Put another way, if the trim fits, it is proper per the manufacturer. Now, you may not like the look if it sticks out at the max, but you'd hate it if you had to tear out the wall to fix if it was too recessed to fit on.

    It is risky to get the rough-in set the minimum, as it only takes a whisker to make it not fit.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  13. #28

    Default

    I'm hoping someone will be able to answer my 3 questions in post #24.

    BTW - I showed my plumber actual pieces of the tile I planned to use and went over the plans for the 1/2" backerboard, furring strips, and vapor barrier. I also showed her the finished plumbing (e.g., trim plate, lever). She took notes in a scrappy old notebook. At a later visit she had trouble finding any of my information. As I watched her flip through scraps of paper I realized she was probably not organized enough to keep up with details.

    However, it sure would be nice if companies like Moen would put a little more flexibility into their products. The valve sure depends on a lot of other things falling perfecting into place...

  14. #29
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    You seem to be missing the point! If you asked for the fixture to be set a certain way and it wasn't, then you have a leg to stand on. If it was plumbed with the bits fitting per the allowable tolerances of the manufacturer, barring other agreed instructions, it is correct. Some bits require extremely tight tolerances of less than 1/16". Just a slight difference in thickness of thinset or a slightly warped tile and it wouldn't fit...they design most things for more tolerance than that, and that is what you got with the fixture you have.

    It is correct if the faceplate can seal and the handle can fit on using the stock bits, spacers, screws, etc.

    It can be moved, but at this point, would be extra cost, not a plumber's mistake. Often, the allowable tolerance is as much as 3/4-1".
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  15. #30

    Default

    jadnashua,

    Ha! Are you saying it was my responsibility to tell my plumber to rough-in the valve so the handle could attach like it says it should in the instructions? Like Moen shows in EVERY picture? That is ridiculous. Shouldn't the plumber figure that out on their own. Especially after being given all the trim pieces and the installation instructions. They're the experts on this stuff.

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