Inspection Joys......Yeah Right

**Cass** · 12-25-2006, 03:07 AM

I just was talking to a friend who works in a county I don't but is near me.

When replacing water heaters,

They require a Plumbing permit (normal) and now the Health Department is requiring that one of their permits be pulled as well.

They (Health Dept.) now require that water heaters be set at 140 F and since they require that, now the Plumbing Dept. requires a tempering valve be installed on the heaters to prevent burns. Another fixture cost on the plumbing permit and another permit charge from the Health Dept.

The same friend who has a Heating and Air business just had an awning installed over a doorway at his place of business and the permit, for just the awning, was $200.00.

**TNPlumber** · 12-25-2006, 06:15 AM

Ohio seems to be out of control with taxes and permits. I left there about 11 years ago, but most of my family is still living there. My parents continually have their property tax increased even though their method of taxation was deemed unconstitutional by the state. Now I live in rural area in the south with absolutely no plumbing permits for my county and see what a mess that can be. I'd like to see a happy medium between how I work now and what you have to deal with. Times are definitely changing here as the new licensing requirement is being enforced and a plumbing inspector is soon to be hired.

Merry Christmas

Scott

hj · 12-25-2006, 07:12 AM

And people wonder why permits are not gotten for water heater replacements. Between the cost of the permit, the time to get it, and the inspection, it would increase the price tremendously and make the homeowner decide not to have a professional install it.

**shacko** · 12-25-2006, 07:51 AM

Cass: Thats the reason that we don't have true national codes, they all want a piece of the action, [$$$$$]. Agree with hj also, thats why I don't pull permits. Don't tell anybody! Lots of luck.

.................................................. .............
"If all else fails, read the directions"

**got_nailed** · 12-25-2006, 08:28 AM

I’m in VA and you have to run copper out of the water heater to the tempering valve then what ever you want from there. For a proper install you only need 3 cutoff vales that they want to see at inspection. They don’t inspect every heater replacement you do but you find out when you call for one. I will say I only get permits for about ½ of the ones I do.

Last few I replaced I pre made the top assembly and plumbed it in at the house. I hate the people that have PEX and want it all done in PEX. I just tell them that they ca pay me T/M and I’ll leave. I make the sign a copy of the local code whit how I plan on meeting it. I have been to court over this and one as-s tried to sue an inspector. I don’t under stand why some people don’t want 2 feet of copper in a house. I had one person want me to put the tempering valve off the nipple on the water heater.

**master plumber mark** · 12-25-2006, 08:56 AM

Are you talking about OHIO?? Or Kentucky???
I have heard that they are pretty strict in kentucky
forceing everyone to get permits for water heaters...

though I dont know how they enforce this in hardware stores..

and now somewhere they want a tempering valve installed on
the water heater too???? On top of the pressure balanced shower
valves???

all its gonna do is make people break the law on replacement
equipment becasue they wont be able to afford the extras...

how safe is safe anyway??? How far is it gonna go??

all its gonna do is force peopel to do it themselves
and cut out the local plumber who is forced to cram
this permit, and tempering
valve down the customers throat...

they simply wont pay it..

**Cass** · 12-25-2006, 08:59 AM

MPM, I am between Cincy and Dayton, Ohio

**master plumber mark** · 12-25-2006, 09:05 AM

Is this some trend that is comming in from the
east coast or is this something that some

"jack ass know it all" in your state is trying to

implement in your the Ohio area only???

What are they doing with the hardware stores...???

Are they forceing the customer to buy a permit on site???

Or is this jsut something that only screws and penalizes the local plumber??

**Randyj** · 12-25-2006, 02:50 PM

Absolutely another example of TOO MUCH LEGISLATION! Personally, I think that although we realize the inconvenience of either an inspector or shoddy plumbing... I DEFINITELY think it should be the homeowners choice whether or not to have the plumbing inspected... I once told a district attorney that the biggest problem with overcrowding jails is because there were too many criminals and if they would quit passing laws making so many things illegal then there would fewer criminals... Every time they make a new law they create more criminals... funny how that works. And people wonder why have a negative attitude about politics... they need to get in the real world and out of that ivory tower!!!!!! Those laws need to be voted on by the public and not just passed by a bunch of people who have lots more money than lots of the people who have to hire plumbers.

**Cass** · 12-26-2006, 05:46 AM

If their going to make people pull permits for heaters they should charge for them at the point of sale if it is not being purchased by a licensed plumber. At least that way it would be a level playing field and when the inspector went to inspect the heater and it failed the inspection they would have to call a plumber and pay a re inspection fee.

hj · 12-26-2006, 06:02 AM

usually stuff like this comes from the West coast. And have you seen the new 2006 regulations for faucets? ALL bathtub without a shower valves have to be thermostatic, (ASSE 1070 compliant), not pressure balanced. With a shower it can be pressure balanced or thermostatic, again ASSE 1070. ALL public lavatories, not just handicap ones, must have thermostatic mixing valves, ASSE 1070 again. Bidets MUST have a thermostatic valve set to a maximum of 110 degrees. Then they have also changed the grab bar requirements for toilet, tubs, and showers, but at least they have reduced the center to wall distance for a handicap toilet so it can be between 16 and 18 inches so it requires fewer changes when upgrading from a standard stall to a handicap one. Regular toilets can be 16 to 19 inches center to the wall. Urinals have also been modified when there is more than one. One can be at the standard height, but if you have two or more, then one has to be at the lower "accessible" height. The good news is that these requirements are in all three codes, the bad news is that these requirements are in all three codes.

**Cass** · 12-26-2006, 06:13 AM

I guess there were to many people that were washing their hands and if the water got to hot they didn't know how to pull their hands out from under the water.

The cause of the lack of physical response of the hands was from to many antibiotics in the burgers being served at fast food restaurants coupled with clogged artery's from the fat which brought on mental problems. We need more laws to deal with all these problems.....................

**Randyj** · 12-26-2006, 06:49 AM

Birmingham's last year murder rate was 4th highest in the nation despite the death penalty being reinstated. This year they have already passed last years number of murders in the BIG CITY. (put some goofy latin words here). Laws and punishment are hardly effective on human behavior. It might just be better to give some guidelines and lay off the law business...lots less paperwork...but more laws do give more people jobs... I moved from the area of the big city... I still have an old rental house there which has a tax value of $44k. The property tax is over $500. Now I live in this vacation land with water, police, FREE garbage service and much fewer regulations. My property with this old beat up house trailer is valued at $55k and the property tax is only $125... I can sleep with my doors unlocked (frequently sleep on the front porch) and leave for days without locking up anything. (more latin words here)... money grabbing politicians creating regulations, drive up taxes, drive up rates of crime..... hmmm... funny how that correlates....

**Cass** · 12-26-2006, 07:18 AM

I was being sarcastic about more laws.

**Randyj** · 12-26-2006, 08:05 AM

Cass.... I know.... but just comb your hair for a few minutes and some politician will be trying to think how great and wonderful he/she would be if they get more publicity with another screwy rule they make which really does not affect them... after all ... how many smokers do you think got the smoking ban roller coaster going? Several years ago they went crazy with sign ordinances despite evidence showing how lighted signs did great and wonderful things... lots of "snob laws" out there that sound good on the surface but really work against their intended purpose. Let them keep going and they will shut down all the hardware and box stores because most customers are not licensed to hammer a nail or turn a wrench. Will have to get a permit to hang a bird feeder... yeah, we need more government control... near Birmingham, one lady was arrested because she didn't have an "appropriate" yard...more an "organic" style rather than a manicured lawn...she refused to cut her grass which she does not grow grass...