Will a 1HP CSCR Controller work on a 1HP CSIR Motor

[Ed Rucker]

Will a 1HP CSCR Controller work on a 1HP CSIR Motor? Are CSCR motors the same as CSIR motors? Are the start windings the same? Seems like a good idea to me, am I missing, anything?

Any thoughts on this are appreciated

 

[Reach4]

CSIR was a new term for me. But the common 3-wire pump motors can be used either way. You can choose one kind of control box or the other.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[LLigetfa]

CSIR was a new term for me. But the common 3-wire pump motors can be used either way. You can choose one kind of control box or the other.

Odd that you left of the "I am not a pro" disclaimer this time. I would defer to a pro such as @Valveman

 

[Fitter30]

No it won't work. Csir motor is capacitor start induction run has a centrifical switch to switch start winding to run winding. Doesn't need a control box just a pressure switch rated for 1 hp and 240 volts

 

[Ed Rucker]

No it won't work. Csir motor is capacitor start induction run has a centrifical switch to switch start winding to run winding. Doesn't need a control box just a pressure switch rated for 1 hp and 240 volts

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that a 2 wire motor you're describing? Maybe an RSIR? The motor I have is a 3 wire (+ground).

 

[Reach4]

Odd that you left of the "I am not a pro" disclaimer this time. I would defer to a pro such as @Valveman

Did you find either of my two statements controversial?

While thinking about that, try this Google search: csir submersible water pump

If Cary were to say that I made a misstatement, then I would figure I am most probably wrong in this. Maybe I should have added the word submersible. When Ed and I referred to a control box, I thought that implied a 3-wire submersible pump.

 

[Ed Rucker]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that a 2 wire motor you're describing? Maybe an RSIR? The motor I have is a 3 wire (+ground).

My mistake, it appears that a CSIR can be either a 2 wire (capacitor and centrifugal switch on the motor) or a 3 wire (capacitor and switch in a control box, (what I have)). As Reach stated, in the past one could run a 3 wire motor either with a CSIR controller (only a start capacitor) or with a CSCR controller (start and run capacitor).

To clarify my question, currently it seems that 3 wire motors 1HP and smaller are designated as CSIR. Have manufacturers somehow cheapened these motors (maybe lighter start windings) so that they won't have good longevity if controlled with a CSCR controller?

 

[Reach4]

CSCR control boxes result in a tad lower energy consumption while running. I would expect that would mean the motor would run a tad cooler.

 

[Ed Rucker]

CSCR control boxes result in a tad lower energy consumption while running. I would expect that would mean the motor would run a tad cooler.

Judging from information gleaned from Grainger, Franklin rates their 1HP CSCR control box at 7.1 amps and their 1HP CSIR control box at 9.8 amps. One might read that as a really substantial increase in efficiency. 38% in fact. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what I see.

 

[Reach4]

If those are the numbers, I would expect that the power factor would be closer to 1 with the capacitor. So power is amps*volts*powerFactor. So I expect the real watts would improve by a smaller amount. Capacitor still seems worthwhile. In some cases, a regular control box can act as a CSR box by putting a suitable capacitor between L1 and the black line to the motor. I think I may have read that that is only if the relay is mechanical, and not electronic.

Start capacitors are non-polarized electrolytics, and run capacitors are not. Electrolytic capacitors will eventually fail, so changing those out after some number of years can be good.

 

[Ed Rucker]

If those are the numbers, I would expect that the power factor would be closer to 1 with the capacitor. So power is amps*volts*powerFactor. So I expect the real watts would improve by a smaller amount. Capacitor still seems worthwhile. In some cases, a regular control box can act as a CSR box by putting a suitable capacitor between L1 and the black line to the motor. I think I may have read that that is only if the relay is mechanical, and not electronic.

Start capacitors are non-polarized electrolytics, and run capacitors are not. Electrolytic capacitors will eventually fail, so changing those out after some number of years can be good.

My previous control box of some 30 years or so was a Red Jacket. As far as I know the capacitors in it have never been replaced. I'm sure that's some kind of record... They just don't make em like that any more do they? I've ordered a CSCR control box. I'm going to check the current with and without the run cap. I'm curious now. I assume it will start without the run cap, we'll see.

 

[Fitter30]

No it won't work. Csir motor is capacitor start induction run has a centrifical switch to switch start winding to run winding. Doesn't need a control box just a pressure switch rated for 1 hp and 240 volts

Should of asked if this pump is submersible or not and how many wires. If you have the model and brand of pump a manufacturer recommendations would be nice. Csir doesn't need a run cap to run.

 

[Valveman]

CS means capacitor start. CR means capacitor run. Both have CS. 3 wire subs will work with either CR or IR. CR just helps with power factor and lowers amps. Uses less energy. Reach may not be a pro, but is getting good at this stuff.