What is the Best Brand submersible Well Pump (Made in USA)?

[John777]

http://www.pumpsok.com/sites/pumpso...Booklet_with_35S_45S_62S_77S_-_GP98992402.pdf page 41 has curves. 10 HP, 3-phase power I presume

You are picking a pump for large scale irrigation, or a small town?

Thanks for the Data on those pumps.
Was wondering on those charts if it includes the average psi pumping into the tank or if its free flowing out the top?
Also how much wear and tear does getting a storage tank help out on the pump?

 

[Valveman]

Those curves are in total feet of head. 50 PSI going into the tank would be the same as lifting an additional 115'. So you add 115' to the depth of water in the well to get the total head required.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

no, just my family. 3 hp and single phase is all I got. well is bout 700 ft dept. So from the charts it looks like a 10s or 16s would do fine.

I would not go 16. A 7 GPM pump is enough for most houses. The table below shows how many GPM a 10 GPM pump would deliver into various pressures with the water level at various depths. It is the depth of the water that counts, and not the depth of the pump.

 

[Valveman]

The following is some good info from a pump man that has done some testing. He even coined a new phrase "rubpeller", for those kinds of pumps the manufacturers call a "floating stage" design. So I am coining a new phrase "hoverpellers" for the kinds of pumps that have what is usually known as a "floating stack" design. The Grundfos pump and copies thereof have "hoverpellers". The impellers do not touch the bottom and transfer all the downthrust to the motor thrust bearing, as it should be. The "hoverpeller" design has much less friction and wear, so the amps will decrease more in these type pumps than on "rubpeller" designs. I agree the thin stainless steel does not hold up well to sand and abrasives, but neither does the bad designed "rubpellers". If you have fairly clean water I highly recommend the Stainless Steel "hoverpeller" type pumps. If you have a sandy well the composite AY McDonald maybe your best choice according to this installer. See the quote below.

Cary

Last we talked I told you I had been working on some impeller design
research.
The basic findings are such:

All SS pumps like the Grundfos etc. use a rubber seal that doesn't hold up
well South of me where the bore hole is often sandstone. The sand is hard
on the rubber seal and works over the SS also.

All the new pumps with composite impeller pumps are of a floating design
except the AY McDonald.
I have a new term for the floating impellers. I now call them rub-pellers,
because they all rub on the bottom side. Some designs are even using Teflon
wear plates/disks along with impregnated lubrication in the composite
material.

Another new trend is label the gpm series of the pumps based on the right
side of curve. That allows for marketing tricks to make a pump look like a
better price for a given GPM series.

The Webtrol failures I have been experiencing where on high head pump less
than 20 GPM. Weber kept insisting "I was the only one having problems"
until I showed up at their plant with a disassembled pump in the back of my
truck. After my show and tell, they began to tell the real story. They
admitted to the design problem and showed be the new improved heaver built
parts etc. The Webtrol still has what I see as a poor design. The bottom of
their impeller rubs on a SS plate. The impeller has a near flat bottom with
no eye projection into the diffuser. Seems like a really high loss design.

Best I have been able to determine the AY McDonald 23000 is the only
composite impeller pump on the market now that doesn't use some type of
rub-impeller design. The AY transfers all the vertical trust to the motor
bearing.

 

[John777]

The following is some good info from a pump man that has done some testing. He even coined a new phrase "rubpeller", for those kinds of pumps the manufacturers call a "floating stage" design. So I am coining a new phrase "hoverpellers" for the kinds of pumps that have what is usually known as a "floating stack" design. The Grundfos pump and copies thereof have "hoverpellers". The impellers do not touch the bottom and transfer all the downthrust to the motor thrust bearing, as it should be. The "hoverpeller" design has much less friction and wear, so the amps will decrease more in these type pumps than on "rubpeller" designs. I agree the thin stainless steel does not hold up well to sand and abrasives, but neither does the bad designed "rubpellers". If you have fairly clean water I highly recommend the Stainless Steel "hoverpeller" type pumps. If you have a sandy well the composite AY McDonald maybe your best choice according to this installer. See the quote below.

Cary

Last we talked I told you I had been working on some impeller design
research.
The basic findings are such:

All SS pumps like the Grundfos etc. use a rubber seal that doesn't hold up
well South of me where the bore hole is often sandstone. The sand is hard
on the rubber seal and works over the SS also.

All the new pumps with composite impeller pumps are of a floating design
except the AY McDonald.
I have a new term for the floating impellers. I now call them rub-pellers,
because they all rub on the bottom side. Some designs are even using Teflon
wear plates/disks along with impregnated lubrication in the composite
material.

Another new trend is label the gpm series of the pumps based on the right
side of curve. That allows for marketing tricks to make a pump look like a
better price for a given GPM series.

The Webtrol failures I have been experiencing where on high head pump less
than 20 GPM. Weber kept insisting "I was the only one having problems"
until I showed up at their plant with a disassembled pump in the back of my
truck. After my show and tell, they began to tell the real story. They
admitted to the design problem and showed be the new improved heaver built
parts etc. The Webtrol still has what I see as a poor design. The bottom of
their impeller rubs on a SS plate. The impeller has a near flat bottom with
no eye projection into the diffuser. Seems like a really high loss design.

Best I have been able to determine the AY McDonald 23000 is the only
composite impeller pump on the market now that doesn't use some type of
rub-impeller design. The AY transfers all the vertical trust to the motor
bearing.

Do you know the difference between the 23000 series and the 24000 series? Both seem like they do the same stuff.

 

[Valveman]

Looks like the 24 series has a Stainless Steel check valve and Noryl impellers where the 23 series has a plastic check valve poppet with Acetal impellers. Other than that you are right I don't see much difference.

 

[John777]

Looks like the 24 series has a Stainless Steel check valve and Noryl impellers where the 23 series has a plastic check valve poppet with Acetal impellers. Other than that you are right I don't see much difference.

I'm looking for a good installer to install a 4" pump. Its currently 700 ft dept. I'm in cleburne Tx. I called one place and they said they would call back with a quote. That was 4 days ago.

 

[Valveman]

I'm looking for a good installer to install a 4" pump. Its currently 700 ft dept. I'm in cleburne Tx. I called one place and they said they would call back with a quote. That was 4 days ago.

Sorry man! I have been having the same problem trying to get someone to rebuild some fence around my yard. You just can't get anybody to do anything these days. A "good pump installer" is almost a oxymoron. A very small percentage of pump installers are actually "good" at what they do. But you should be able to find one that is professional enough to at least call you back with a quote. Research and educate yourself on pumps, and watch everything they do. You may end up explaining things to the installer.

In FT. Worth call Preferred pump. They are the supply house for many installers. They maybe able to recommend one.

 

[John777]

Sorry man! I have been having the same problem trying to get someone to rebuild some fence around my yard. You just can't get anybody to do anything these days. A "good pump installer" is almost a oxymoron. A very small percentage of pump installers are actually "good" at what they do. But you should be able to find one that is professional enough to at least call you back with a quote. Research and educate yourself on pumps, and watch everything they do. You may end up explaining things to the installer.

In FT. Worth call Preferred pump. They are the supply house for many installers. They maybe able to recommend one.

So my Grandfos 10S30 been making noise, and flipping the run switch. I put a control meter on it and its running at 34 amps which is much higher than it should be. Every once in awhile it runs at 22 and it don't make much noise. The higher the amps the louder it gets and then shuts off.
I got a new control box. Does the same thing. Seems to work a little better with the new control box but actually does the same thing.
Does that mean definitely the pump is bad? Its only 9 years old and been pumping into a 1500 water tank. I think it would cut on about every 3 days.
I made it pump into the tank so it would last much longer. Some say it could be a grounding problem, another said definitely the pump.
Thanks for any info,
John

 

[Valveman]

It will say on the control box what the max amps should be. I am thinking about 17 amps max for a 3HP. If it is doing the same thing after installing a new control box, my guess is that you do not have a shroud or flow inducer sleeve on the pump and the motor thrust bearing has gotten hot and dropped. The stickup on the motor shaft should be 1.5". I am betting it is about 1.25" and the impellers are dragging.

 

[John777]

It will say on the control box what the max amps should be. I am thinking about 17 amps max for a 3HP. If it is doing the same thing after installing a new control box, my guess is that you do not have a shroud or flow inducer sleeve on the pump and the motor thrust bearing has gotten hot and dropped. The stickup on the motor shaft should be 1.5". I am betting it is about 1.25" and the impellers are dragging.

after the pump is pulled is that an easy fix or is it hard and expensive. Those pumps run about $2000. And yes 17 amps is what it used to run at.
"do not have a shroud or flow inducer sleeve" is this something they have done on purpose to shorten the life span? If so is there a way to put one on it if I get a new one? I'd like to do the best never to have any more problems with the pump. Way too expensive to get people to pull it at 700 feet so I want to do everything I can to make it last as long as possible. I didn't like the "light bulb conspiracy documentary", well I did I just didn't like what the manufacturers were doing.

 

[Valveman]

If the stick up on the motor shaft is less than 1.5", the thrust bearing in the motor is bad and the motor will need to be replaced. The pump end will probably still be good, which will be half of a complete new unit. Some people won't put a new motor on and old pump, but I have done it lots of times. I am not a fan of putting a new pump on an old motor, but the other way around is OK.

The pump and motor are 3.5" diameter. If you have 5" or larger casing you can use a 4" shroud or flow inducer on the pump. If the thrust bearing is down, it is usually from a lack of flow going past the motor. A shroud makes the water go past the motor before it goes into the pump intake. IMO a shroud is THE most important part in making a motor last, especially a deep set, low volume pump like that.

If the casing is too small for a shroud, the best you can do is raise the pump in the well if possible, so that more water flows past the motor on the way up to the pump intake.

 

[Reach4]

"do not have a shroud or flow inducer sleeve" is this something they have done on purpose to shorten the life span? If so is there a way to put one on it if I get a new one?

A flow inducer sleeve/shroud is easy to make. It can be made with either
Solvent weld D2729 sewer pipe: OD 4.215 ID 4.056
Schedule 40: OD 4.500 ID 4.026

In addition, there is often a worm gear clamp. There are some photo examples that are available. The first photo on https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/submersible-pump-in-cistern.71530/ is a 3-shot sequence of implementing one design.

 

[John777]

A flow inducer sleeve/shroud is easy to make. It can be made with either
Solvent weld D2729 sewer pipe: OD 4.215 ID 4.056
Schedule 40: OD 4.500 ID 4.026

In addition, there is often a worm gear clamp. There are some photo examples that are available. The first photo on https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/submersible-pump-in-cistern.71530/ is a 3-shot sequence of implementing one design.

Thanks for the info on this. I checked it out and found out I don't have a 5" pipe, its 4 1/2" Which means I can't use the shroud. You think I should go with a 3" pump. the sp series? Data for that was hard to find if it can pump from 650 ft (water line I believe). Plus it didn't say stainless steel. So I don't know it those are any good. Not sure if its good to downgrade the pump to put a shroud on.

If I stick with the 4" does that pump cut off when it dry runs? Is there a way to check the depth and cut off the pump when it hits at a certain level? I'd hate to raise the pump so it would get better circulation only to mess it up by sucking air.

 

[Reach4]

Thanks for the info on this. I checked it out and found out I don't have a 5" pipe, its 4 1/2"

Is that ID or OD?

If I stick with the 4" does that pump cut off when it dry runs? Is there a way to check the depth and cut off the pump when it hits at a certain level? I'd hate to raise the pump so it would get better circulation only to mess it up by sucking air.

There are electronic devices that you can run your power through. They monitor the current used, and shut down the pump for a selectable time if the pump runs out of water.

 

[Valveman]

The only 3" SQ pump that will go 650' will only do about 2 GPM and has a 1HP motor. I don't know why anyone would use casing that is too small for a motor shroud? Since that is the case, I would take the pump off the motor as soon as it comes out of the ground. If the motor shaft stick up is less than 1.5", the motor has been hot because the water is not flowing past that motor the way a flow inducer shroud would cause. In these cases I will test the well to see the actual water level when the pump is running, and take out some pipe and move the pump up where it is only 10-20' below the pumping level.

Then an electronic device like a Cycle Sensor that protects the pump from dry run is even more important.

 

[VAWellDriller]

Do you know the well construction? If this is a typical cased and screened well with screen at the bottom; the well itself is the flow sleeve as long as the pump intake at or above the top of the screen.

 

[John777]

Do you know the well construction? If this is a typical cased and screened well with screen at the bottom; the well itself is the flow sleeve as long as the pump intake at or above the top of the screen.

I don't know the construction. I think the pump is like 30 ft from the bottom but not for sure. I'll get the measurements after the pump is pulled (water level and bottom of well). Can those measurements tell you somewhat about the construction of it?

Thanks for that video. I needed that info.
I called one place to pull and replace my grandfos 10s30 pump and they don't install grandfos pumps. The do only Gould. Are those good pumps as well or should I stay away from them?

 

[Valveman]

The well construction report would tell us the depth and diameter of the casing as well as the placement of the screen or perforated casing. Being 30' off the bottom is good if the well screen where the water comes in is in that 30'. But if the screen is above 30', the motor can get hot while pumping nice cool water out of the well.

A Goulds 10GS30 is probably about as good as a Grundfos 10S30. But again I doubt that anything is wrong with the pump end. I have put 3-4 motors on Grundfos pumps over the years before I finally wore out the pump end. If that motor thrust bearing is down, all you need is a new motor set higher up so it gets water from from below to cool the motor.

 

[Reach4]

I'll get the measurements after the pump is pulled (water level and bottom of well).

For the waterline, count the pieces of pipe as they come up, and note the waterline, which is usually available on the pipe. A photo should do that job, but the pipes below the waterline and those above may or may not look noticeably different. I am not a pro.

Stay out of the way, but it is fun to watch. When I watched, it seemed nicely orchestrated.